Load from a disk or Quickload?

[jschroed]

I'm wondering your thoughts on both programs?

 

[ar10ar15man]

quickload ..hands down...

 

[Nvreloader]

Quickload + 10,

No other program comes close!

Tia,
Don

 

[Geeman]

Quickload is a MUCH more robust program.

I started by trying to save a buck and got LFAD. That program chooses what powders it shows based on the cartridge, bullet, and OAL. I kept trying to change seating depth in an attempt to get a powder to show up on the list. Less than ideal! Another quirk is that ALL cartridges show as max at 50K CUP. Didn't matter if it was a 30-30 or 300 WSM. In one case 50K would be way over pressure, the other would just be getting warmed up.

Quickload is more accurate, give the user the ability to change details on a case by case basis, and gives all the info you need.

Save yourself a few bucks and buy the one first which you will wind up with sooner or later anyway.

Greg

 

[bigedp51]

jschroed

I just purchased Quickload a few weeks ago and if I had to do it over I would have spent the money elsewhere and not bothered.

If you take loading data from reloading manuals and enter case capacity, OAL, trim length etc. you will get some very high and low chamber pressure readings.

Some of the data will be very close to the manuals and the load and pressure data it spits out is useful. And some of the data is down right scary.

I have a Stevens 200 .223 that has a longer throat than my two AR15 rifles and without entering data like this into Quickload even its "ball park" estimates will be far off.

I was just checking the 35 Remington page in my Hornady manual and entered the max load of 748 (42.7 gr) and OAL, case length, case capacity and got this.

The max rated chamber should be approximately 35,000 cup or 40,000 psi.


Cartridge : .35 Rem.
Bullet : .358, 200, Hornady SPSP 3510
Useable Case Capaci: 39.605 grain H2O = 2.571 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.540 inch = 64.52 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Winchester 748

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 87 34.16 1856 1530 24971 4470 77.6 1.412
-18.0 89 35.01 1906 1612 26687 4646 79.2 1.374
-16.0 91 35.87 1956 1699 28535 4820 80.8 1.336
-14.0 93 36.72 2007 1788 30532 4992 82.3 1.299
-12.0 96 37.58 2058 1881 32675 5161 83.7 1.263
-10.0 98 38.43 2110 1977 35015 5327 85.1 1.228 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 100 39.28 2163 2077 37545 5487 86.5 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 102 40.14 2216 2180 40285 5643 87.9 1.155 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 104 40.99 2269 2287 43265 5793 89.1 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 107 41.85 2323 2397 46512 5936 90.4 1.084 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 109 42.70 2378 2510 50056 6072 91.5 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 111 43.55 2433 2628 53938 6200 92.6 1.018 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 113 44.41 2488 2749 58203 6318 93.7 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 115 45.26 2544 2873 62898 6427 94.6 0.955 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 117 46.12 2600 3002 68086 6525 95.5 0.925 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 120 46.97 2657 3135 73840 6611 96.4 0.895 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 109 42.70 2529 2840 60429 6224 97.6 0.969 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 109 42.70 2190 2130 40945 5593 81.7 1.156 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

The pressure should be at or below 40,000 psi and the manual gives 2050 fps for 42.7 grains of 748 powder.

Quickload spit out a pressure reading 10,000 psi "ABOVE" the rated chamber pressure of the 35 Remington and the data came from the Hornady manual.????

 

[amlevin]

I use "Load from a Disk" and find it more than adequate for my needs. NO, it isn't as robust as Quick Load but for the cartridges I load for and the powders I use, or am considering, it gives me more than enough to go out and do the "Ladder Test". It's also useful to see what relative pressure changes might occur with longer or shorter OAL's., temps, and barrel length.

It's kind of like buying a digital caliper. If your needs are pretty basic, get an inexpensive one for around $25-$30. If you need more accuracy, for whatever the perceived reason, then go for the high end units costing 5 times or more.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many are using Quick Load to it's fullest capabilities and how many would be just as well served with something like Load from a Disk.

Methinks that many QL sales are made to those who are merely "keeping up with the Jones's" 8)

 

[BoydAllen]

It would seem to me that in order to do a proper evaluaton of Quickload, that some chronograph work would be in order. I have both, and being somewhat more curious and prone to "what ifs" than many may be, really enjoy its features. I believe that the owner/editor of this sight has said that it gives results that have been very close to what the actual results were, for his applications. On the other hand, an old, hard print manual, or free data from a powder manufacturer should provide a safe starting load, if that is all you are after. After all, we all do proper load workups right? ;-)

 

[bigedp51]

Below, load data from the Hornady 9th Edition
150 gr Interlock SP (3031)
BC .338 COL 3.210
Trim length 2.484
Case Capacity 68.5 (split difference on two Remington case from two websites)

1. What I'm I doing wrong or not entering or missing?
2. Hornady manual max load and QL has low chamber pressure and low fps?

Note before the 35 Remington was 10,000 psi high and now the 30-06 is 10,000 psi low from max rated chamber pressure?????

NOTE: I thought I was moving up in the world from 1973 and the Powley Computer to the invention of the desk top computer and "keeping up with the Jones's" had nothing to do with it.

 

[bigedp51]

Would some of you please cross check my answers or output from Quickload, could running Windows XP with version 3.6 of Quickload cause problems or could I have a bad install??

I'm running on an older computer with a 2.16 Athlon processor. :-[

 

[Geeman]

Would some of you please cross check my answers or output from Quickload, could running Windows XP with version 3.6 of Quickload cause problems or could I have a bad install??

I'm running on an older computer with a 2.16 Athlon processor. :-[

Don't underestimate the way seating depth changes chamber pressure. Check out the "filling/L.R." figure on your 35 Rem load. It certainly seems like alot of powder in the case, and most sources show 38 or 39 grains for that powder pushing 200g loads. I don't have the Hornady manual, so I can't cross check that, but I'd approach that max VERY carefully.

Greg

 

[ar10ar15man]

one of the major benefits of quikload is the ability to tune the tool from actual results in your gun with your powder.
if the system says x load should produce 2750 fps and you get more or less...you can adjust parameters to show what you got.
first is your case capacity the same as the system..if not..you can ADD a new case with your capacity, and rerun the numbers.
stilll not match....get brave..nothing is free. it takes x energy to move y bullet to z velocity.....
so since you have bullet weight and velocity, go adjust energy.
increase or reduce kj/kg to get the velocity you actually got with your load......
log the new kj/kg number and use it in the future with this powder and similar cartridges....

want to log your actuall oal's for x bullet and 30'06...just add a new 30'06 data set(cartridge) and add data in the title
this is one very FLEXIBLE tool....remember it is a tool, not a bible

 

[bigedp51]

Would some of you please cross check my answers or output from Quickload, could running Windows XP with version 3.6 of Quickload cause problems or could I have a bad install??

I'm running on an older computer with a 2.16 Athlon processor. :-[

Don't underestimate the way seating depth changes chamber pressure. Check out the "filling/L.R." figure on your 35 Rem load. It certainly seems like alot of powder in the case, and most sources show 38 or 39 grains for that powder pushing 200g loads. I don't have the Hornady manual, so I can't cross check that, but I'd approach that max VERY carefully.

Greg

1. I don't have a 35 Remington, I was checking Quickload answers vs the Hornady manual.
2. The seating depth, COL and case capacity were filled out correctly.
3. Yes its a warm load and the Hodgdon's website is more conservative, and the chamber pressure is 10,000 psi low, 100 fps slower with Quickload????

Hodgdon's data
748 39 gr
2130 fps
33,000 cup (approximately 35,000 psi)


Cartridge : .35 Rem.
Bullet : .358, 200, Hornady SPRN 3515
Useable Case Capaci: 43.955 grain H2O = 2.854 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.520 inch = 64.01 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Winchester 748

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 72 31.20 1630 1180 17218 3848 70.3 1.632
-18.0 73 31.98 1670 1239 18172 4011 71.7 1.595
-16.0 75 32.76 1710 1299 19183 4175 73.1 1.559
-14.0 77 33.54 1751 1362 20254 4339 74.5 1.524
-12.0 79 34.32 1792 1426 21390 4504 75.9 1.489
-10.0 80 35.10 1834 1494 22595 4669 77.3 1.455
-08.0 82 35.88 1876 1563 23871 4834 78.6 1.422
-06.0 84 36.66 1919 1635 25227 4997 80.0 1.390
-04.0 86 37.44 1962 1709 26666 5160 81.3 1.358
-02.0 88 38.22 2005 1786 28194 5321 82.5 1.327
+00.0 89 39.00 2049 1864 29819 5480 83.8 1.296
+02.0 91 39.78 2093 1945 31549 5636 85.0 1.266
+04.0 93 40.56 2137 2029 33389 5790 86.2 1.237
+06.0 95 41.34 2182 2115 35352 5940 87.3 1.208 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 97 42.12 2227 2203 37444 6086 88.4 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 98 42.90 2272 2293 39681 6228 89.5 1.149 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 89 39.00 2199 2147 35561 5882 92.2 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 89 39.00 1878 1565 24748 4839 72.7 1.406

 

[bigedp51]

one of the major benefits of quikload is the ability to tune the tool from actual results in your gun with your powder.
if the system says x load should produce 2750 fps and you get more or less...you can adjust parameters to show what you got.
first is your case capacity the same as the system..if not..you can ADD a new case with your capacity, and rerun the numbers.
stilll not match....get brave..nothing is free. it takes x energy to move y bullet to z velocity.....
so since you have bullet weight and velocity, go adjust energy.
increase or reduce kj/kg to get the velocity you actually got with your load......
log the new kj/kg number and use it in the future with this powder and similar cartridges....

want to log your actuall oal's for x bullet and 30'06...just add a new 30'06 data set(cartridge) and add data in the title
this is one very FLEXIBLE tool....remember it is a tool, not a bible

I do not have a chronograph and if a chronograph is needed to calibrate Quickload then what good is the software. My old Powley Computer would give better answers than I'm getting with Quickload. Much of Quickloads data output doesn't even match what is in the reloading manuals.

My old method of averaging two or three manuals and making up work up loads gives better results than Quickload guesstimates.

Again just checking data from the reloading manuals "some" of Quickloads data is very close, BUT more output data from Quickload is wrong than right.

 

[ar10ar15man]

if you do not have a choronograph...how do you know who is right and who is wrong.
( i dissagree with the right or wrong terms here..its a tool not a bible)
if you look at most reloading manuals..they use universal test fixtures..not rifles....lab data seldom is a one for one match with the real world.

you are simply comparing two or three data sets with no data of your own...and then saying one is WRONG....life just aint like that in the real world of gunpowder

 

[bigedp51]

if you do not have a choronograph...how do you know who is right and who is wrong.
( i dissagree with the right or wrong terms here..its a tool not a bible)
if you look at most reloading manuals..they use universal test fixtures..not rifles....lab data seldom is a one for one match with the real world.

you are simply comparing two or three data sets with no data of your own...and then saying one is WRONG....life just aint like that in the real world of gunpowder

Where have you been, Lyman uses some test barrels and universal receivers, the majority of reloading manuals use strain gauges and actual firearms today.

If you can't tell me what I'm doing wrong with Quickload or explain why the data is so far off from the manuals or help by cross checking my Quickload answers then your wasting bandwidth and my time and everyone reading this posting.

 

[BoydAllen]

Without a chronograph you are in no position to evaluate the correctness of a manual or program. Simply noting that they do not agree says nothing about which one is closer to the actual results that you would obtain with a particular rifle. That would take testing and measuring, with, among other things, a chronograph. Many of us have found both the various manuals we own, and computer programs useful. Saying that manuals disagree, sometimes significantly, or that a computer program does not give the same results as one of the manuals should be no big revelation to anyone who has experience with several of each. What we learn, is that a lot of the differences can be attributed to differences in test barrels, chambers, and lots of powder, which can vary significantly. If anyone is wasting bandwidth here...

 

[Geeman]

if you do not have a choronograph...how do you know who is right and who is wrong.
( i dissagree with the right or wrong terms here..its a tool not a bible)
if you look at most reloading manuals..they use universal test fixtures..not rifles....lab data seldom is a one for one match with the real world.

you are simply comparing two or three data sets with no data of your own...and then saying one is WRONG....life just aint like that in the real world of gunpowder

Where have you been, Lyman uses some test barrels and universal receivers, the majority of reloading manuals use strain gauges and actual firearms today.

If you can't tell me what I'm doing wrong with Quickload or explain why the data is so far off from the manuals or help by cross checking my Quickload answers then your wasting bandwidth and my time and everyone reading this posting.

Ok, which is right, Lyman?

I'll tell you in no uncertain terms there are differences between firearms. Hand lapped vs. mass produced barrels don't behave the same way. A tight chamber doesn't behave like one with looser specs. An autoloader differers from a tight, strong bolt action.

As far as not having a chrony, how about feeding the info into a balistics program. Is the drop more or less than forcast.

You may feel its a waste of bandwidth, but I've seen 200 fps difference between barrels of similar length using the same load. What were the pressure differences? I can tell you tight chambers show pressure first and show higher FPS. I would imagine that hand lapped barrels would offer lower friction, but I cannot prove that.

Qiuck load has extensive warnings displayed before using the program. Read them and you may begin to understand the purpose of the program. Its a tool, as has been previously stated. Nothing is perfect, but Quickload can be modified and refined. I've certainly done so on my chamberings. If you choose not to, that's ok. Just don't get short with those trying to help.

Greg

 

[bigedp51]

Nothing is perfect, but Quickload can be modified and refined. I've certainly done so on my chamberings. If you choose not to, that's ok. Just don't get short with those trying to help.

Greg

Geeman, don't tell me not to get short with ar10ar15man who said the Thumler's Tumbler is for the "hobby shooter" and gives NO feedback or help on how to make the Quickload program work better. I'm retired and have been reloading for over 46 years and I didn't ask for "attitude".

Without a chronograph you are in no position to evaluate the correctness of a manual or program. Simply noting that they do not agree says nothing about which one is closer to the actual results that you would obtain with a particular rifle. That would take testing and measuring, with, among other things, a chronograph. If anyone is wasting bandwidth here...

And you BoydAllen can drop the "attitude", the Quickload answer is it is worthless without a chronograph acording to "YOU". I used data from two manuals and Quickload gave answers that varied 20,000 psi. I'm sitting here cross checking Quickload with a desk full of reloading manuals and its output is worthless. On top of this YOU and NO ONE else has stated how to correct the output data or where to enter velocity changes to synchronize the Quickload output.

In my second posting I asked "What I'm I doing wrong or not entering or missing?" and NO one gave any answers. All I see are a bunch of vague comments and NOTHING concrete.

The question was "Topic: Load from a disk or Quickload?

I'm wondering your thoughts on both programs?

 

[ar10ar15man]

no..your question is wasting bandwidth...

call the publishers of the three sets of data and ask them....

sorry you are wasting band with this this sidetracked question...

powders vary from lot to lot
primers vary from lot to lot
brass varies from pc to pc and lot to lot
bullets vary from lot to lot
bbls are all different...and
you think three source data's should all agree ??
you are wating everyone time

your powder charge with that powder and your listed case capacity is 108%.....and way over pressure....
so what book did this come from ???
the entire load came from what book ???

 

[Nomad47]

BigEd, QL is a very complex program/tool. And I don't have the time nor inclination to explain everything I do with the program.
But if you will provide me with your location and if I get near you in my travels, I would be happy to sit down with you and go over everything the program does and can do. But in my opinion, you REALLY need a chronograph and two different charges to calibrate QL - and then it is an amazing tool.