Load Development by bullet rather than powder charge

[Hengehold]

I have read in this forum that some shooters develop a load by first testing various bullets and adjusting powder charge after bullet testing is complete. This seems backwards to me. I have always decided what bullet I am going to use and stick with it. Then, found a node by adjusting powder charge.

I have been reloading & shooting competitively for 15 years. Mostly NRA high power and Palma shooting. 99% of my experience has been with Sierra match kings. If a barrel didn't shoot well with a SMK in the node, I figure it must be a bad barrel.

Is the bullet changing method that I described something that is common in bench rest?

Thanks ,
-Trevor

 

[Lapua40X]

[QUOTE="Hengehold, post: 37018937, member: 1277378"... first testing various bullets and adjusting powder charge after bullet testing is complete. This seems backwards to me. I have always decided what bullet I am going to use and stick with it. Then, found a node by adjusting powder charge.
[/QUOTE]

Well, ya gotta start somewhere. I think most shooters select their bullet relative to the type of shooting they intend to do. I don't use a .22 for elk or a .308 for ground squirrels. So I select the bullet I expect to use and work up a charge that provides the best performance for that bullet. But sometimes my rifle, regardless of powder charge or seating depth, doesn't like the bullet I've chosen. That takes me back to the drawing board and I test other bullets until I've found one that performs well. Then the load is adjusted to obtain maximum performance. Insisting on first deciding what bullet you want to use and spending countless hours (and dollars) on load adjustments to find the "node" that doesn't exist doesn't enhance the enjoyment of the shooting experience.

 

[BoydAllen]

It all depends on what you are doing. For some things bullet performance is the key, and accuracy requirements may only be minute of deer. For others there is only the need to be able to punch a hole in a piece of paper, and it is all about accuracy. In competition benchrest circles there are many similar bullets to choose from. Shooters may decide to try different ones that look and weigh the same, and find that they gain an advantage from doing so. With each trial a separate workup will be needed to see what powder charge and seating depth that bullet works best with. In the short range game this is made much easier because shooters typically load at the range and use wind flags. Really well built rifles are excellent tools for quickly sorting out which components work best for a particular gun. Less accurate rifles are not as easy in that respect. Doing it without flags, running back and forth to the range to test various combinations is a lot less sure and certainly less convenient.

 

[CharlieNC]

Trevor when I asked a top gunsmith/shooter what he thought was most important when developing a load for a new build, he immediately noted bullet selection. Using a known good load, he would take a few shots using different brand bullets to assure at least one performed to his standard. In his experience all barrels did not like all bullets, and he sorted that out before anything else.

 

[Buzzsaw]

agree bullet first

 

[T-shooter]

I think starting by switching bullets with the same load may not be the best way to go. For example, Here are 2 groups using similar weight bullets and similar powder charges with the jump being the same. Shot at the same time at 215 yards. The A-Max ammo was never dialed in but seems to shoot reasonably well, a .6 MOA here. Just changing the bullet to one 8 grains lighter and using 1/10 grain more powder it shot way off. 168g Hornady Match and Sierra 168g M/K also shoot to the same vertical center as the A-Max but with tighter groups.


This was just an initial test. The last 3 shots groups were .76 MOA and .47 MOA. 3 shot groups don't mean much except as a starting point. When the mud dries from all the rain, I'll try dialing this in more with 5 shot groups.

 

[Bart B.]

Bullet first = good idea.

As long as its diameter is at least a few ten-thousandths inch more than the barrel's groove diameter.

A close second would be what's best for the barrel's twist and muzzle velocity it'll leave at. Heavy bullets spun too slow are about as bad as light ones spun too fast. Spin them just fast enough to stabilize all the way to the target for best accuracy.

 

[Hengehold]

Trevor when I asked a top gunsmith/shooter what he thought was most important when developing a load for a new build, he immediately noted bullet selection. Using a known good load, he would take a few shots using different brand bullets to assure at least one performed to his standard. In his experience all barrels did not like all bullets, and he sorted that out before anything else.

CharlieNC,

Thanks for sharing.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why the approach you described is a good idea. Here is why. If you arbitrarily pic a load and test different bullets of similar weight but different shape, you may have some bullets that are in or not-in the node when you do the initial bullet selection test. If a bullet did end up in a node during this test with a random powder it would just be dumb luck.

It seems to me like you would need to adjust the powder charge to find a node with each bullet, then compare how different bullets perform when shot within a node.

-Trevor

 

[CharlieNC]

Trevor that is why he stated with a known good load, like 30.0 gr Varget using 105gr bullets in a 6BR. Not optimum, but close. If you check the various calibers on the home page there are many great load listings. In fact I must say I will exhaust a load development using a bullet that I want to work (high bc, etc) before deciding a bullet won't perform, but I have kept the gunsmiths advise in mind even though I don't always follow it. Daddy always said do as I say, not as I do.

 

[Richard Coody]

I've stuck with some longer than i should have. I have even been know to come back to it after i have rejected it. Usually i was right the first time.

I have also made a bullet work after a long and extensive load development.

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that lots of barrel steel, time and reloading components have been wasted by reloaders who thought that they could tell their rifle what it likes. I think that a better approach is to ask it what it likes and then load accordingly. A while back I watched a friend go round and round trying to make the bullet with the highest BC and the powder with the highest velocity work together in a particular rifle. He could have seen that it wasn't going to work and moved on, but his stubbornness would not let him. finally he gave up on that combination and at my suggestion started reading a specialty web site. He tried a combination that had worked well for others, doing his own fine tuning, and his results finally came around.

 

[Bart B.]

I'm convinced most rifle cartridge reloaders' first mandate is to use the powder that produces highest muzzle velocity for their bullet. Speed is their top priority. Sometimes they'll check several data sources to find that powder and charge weights to start with.

They're usually not willing to give up several dozen fps numbers to get 34% to 42% smaller test groups.

The venerable 30-06 is probably the best example this applies to.

 

[BoydAllen]

If they are target shooters, they will make that trade all day long.

 

[Lapua40X]

I'm convinced most rifle cartridge reloaders' first mandate is to use the powder that produces highest muzzle velocity for their bullet. Speed is their top priority. Sometimes they'll check several data sources to find that powder and charge weights to start with.

They're usually not willing to give up several dozen fps numbers to get 34% to 42% smaller test groups.

The venerable 30-06 is probably the best example this applies to.

Those who believe that increasing MV is the solution to their issues with accuracy (usually when making bad wind calls) need to understand that a rifle improperly held and a bullet improperly aimed striking the target in the wrong place at a higher rate of speed doesn't improve the score.