Load data 300WSM 220 Berger LRHT and Reloader 23??

[chuckgreen]

I just got some Reloader 23 and would like to work up a 300WSM load with Berger 220 Long Range Hybrid Target bullets and Fed 215M primers. I'm wondering if anyone has tried this combo and could recommend a starting charge weight. I've been using H4831sc but here in AZ I'm having lot's of problems with temperature variation and hope maybe R23 may be an improvement. Thanks....

 

[ben_g]

I start at 62.0gr with the 215hybrid but find 64-65gr is where I end up. I use CCIBR2’s

The 220gr has about 0.050” more bearing surface. I would probably start at around 61gr or so with the 220

RE23 gives me great velocity, accuracy and consistency. You’ll like it.

 

[chuckgreen]

Thanks Ben...that's what I needed to know to get started. What kind of velocities are you getting at 64-65 grains?

 

[ben_g]

With the 215 I get 2930fps with 64.0gr in one barrel which is well and truly run in.

In my other barrel I am running 65.4gr for 2940fps but it only has 80 rounds through it so I am expecting it to speed up and to drop that charge back a bit.
62.0gr on a new barrel was around 2770fps

Will be interested to hear your results with the 220. I point the 215 which by most accounts improves the BC approximately 5%. So a pointed 215 equals the new 220 for BC but is still a little lighter.
I get excellent results with the 215 and don’t really have any reason to try the 220 but still keen to see how you go.

I will attach a target shot at 700yards last weekend with the new barrel and 215’s.

 

[chuckgreen]

Thanks Ben, that's all helpful info. One reason I've been wanting to try the 220's is that they come already pointed. One less thing to do. I'll be working with new loads over the next few weeks and will post any interesting results on this thread. Probably won't shoot them at distance though until our next 1K match on the 2nd Saturday of July.

 

[ShootDots]

I just got some Reloader 23 and would like to work up a 300WSM load with Berger 220 Long Range Hybrid Target bullets and Fed 215M primers. I'm wondering if anyone has tried this combo and could recommend a starting charge weight. I've been using H4831sc but here in AZ I'm having lot's of problems with temperature variation and hope maybe R23 may be an improvement. Thanks....

RL-23 is about as temp INsensitive as powders come. Somewhere between 63.5 and 64.5grs you WILL find a sweet spot. Generally in the close vicinity of 2885 to 2920 is where it will land. Also, use CCI Br2s..

 

[chuckgreen]

I had a chance this morning to try out some Reloader 23 in my Borden 300WSM Light Gun at Tucson Rifle Club. It’s always so windy here on the desert that I usually test at just 100yds to minimize the wind effect. Not quite so bad this morning for a change…between 7am and 9am temps climbed from 65 to only 85 degrees and the wind was 5-7mph with gusts to 10 or so. Altitude here is 1,532ft.


I was shooting my LG with a BRMXD action, B&A trigger, Wheeler/McMillan stock and a Kreiger 4 groove, 1-10 twist, 30in, barrel with 560 rounds on it.


I wanted to try RL23 at several different charge weights with the Berger 220 LRHT bullets and with two different primers. At this time I’m really looking for a slightly lower than maximum charge weight node that still provides great accuracy at reasonable velocities with less pressure to use at our summer matches where the temps can run up to 105 degrees and after 3 five round strings and especially after 3 HG strings the barrel can get super hot and chamber pressures seem to increase a lot.


I’ve been loading the Berger 215 Hybrids over 66gr of H4831sc lit by Fed 215M primers going out about 2,850 for the last year. This load shot very well during the winter but at our June 13th match I started having problems with hard bolt lift during my first LG string and was fighting the bolt during the whole relay. I’ve decided I’d rather sacrifice some velocity in exchange for smooth chambering and extraction and greater brass life so have been looking for a new recipe.


Several guys have recommended RL23 and have also suggested that regular large rifle primers work better than magnum primers so I wanted to do some comparisons today to see for myself. Testing last year with H4831 showed the 215M primers working best so I have been using those exclusively but today changed my mind.


So, today I loaded up enough rounds to shoot 10 3 shot groups with RL23 and Berger 220 LRHT’s seated .030 off the lands…5 groups with 215M and 5 with Fed210M primers. I varied the charges from 62 to 64 gr in .5 grain increments. The attached target shows the results I got. Charge weights increase from left to right…higher row is with 215’s, lower row with 210’s. I shot the groups from left to right so conditions would be more or less the same with all the 6 rounds at each charge weight. I saw no signs of pressure at any of these charges and all chambered and extracted smoothly with no heavy bolt lift. I could probably seek a higher node but believe I will try shooting our July match with around 63gr and the 210M primers and see how that feels and performs.


I always appreciate any thoughts or comments. I am curious how much difference in wind drift around 100 fps in velocity would make with this load. The barrel seems to like around 2,800 pretty much. I’m wondering how wind drift would be affected if I goosed it up to 2,900 and if that would be worth the risk of increased pressure and shorter case life.

 

[Willow]

Work either side of 63.5gr, with the 210M primer looks ok to the naked eye.

 

[ben_g]

Do you have a tuner?

If it’s shooting well at 2800fps you will probably find the groups tighten up around 2920fps if you can reach it.

What velocity did you achieve with 64.0gr

With my first barrel I saw pressure signs start around 2990fps with 66gr of RE23 (but with the 215berger)

As for the extra 100fps ...... in F-class shooting for score I would take it if it’s consistent, accurate and safe.

 

[chuckgreen]

No Ben, I don't have a tuner. Velocities at 64gr were 2,875 with the 215M and 2,837 with the 210M. I would expect somewhat lower velocities with the 220's than I would get with the 215's. Groups opened up quite a bit at 64gr.

I'm inclined to try shooting our July match with a load of around 63-63.5gr and see how that works in 100 degree plus heat. If I can get through 3 10 round HG strings without hard bolt lift or signs of pressure on my cases I'll try going up a bit with the charge the next month.

I'm using expensive Norma brass and am tired of ruining the primer pockets after 4 or 5 firings. A hard bolt lift on extraction really screws up running my strings quickly and smoothly. I'm willing to give up 100fps if by doing so I can avoid these problems.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[INTJ]

No Ben, I don't have a tuner. Velocities at 64gr were 2,875 with the 215M and 2,837 with the 210M. I would expect somewhat lower velocities with the 220's than I would get with the 215's. Groups opened up quite a bit at 64gr.

I'm inclined to try shooting our July match with a load of around 63-63.5gr and see how that works in 100 degree plus heat. If I can get through 3 10 round HG strings without hard bolt lift or signs of pressure on my cases I'll try going up a bit with the charge the next month.

I'm using expensive Norma brass and am tired of ruining the primer pockets after 4 or 5 firings. A hard bolt lift on extraction really screws up running my strings quickly and smoothly. I'm willing to give up 100fps if by doing so I can avoid these problems.

Thanks for your comments.

When I shot in Tucson during 2005-2007, I did quite well shooting 220 SMKs at 2740 fps with Fed 210Ms and 63 grains of H4831SC from a 300 WSM. I think Ross was shooting 210 JLKs then at mid 2800s. My slower velocity was no handicap--you can ask him. That said, RL-23 does seem to be worth another 30-50 fps over H4831SC, and the 220 SMKs have a lot of bearing surface--likely more than the 220 Bergers?

I am currently shooting Berger 215s in my current 300 WSM, 64.5 grains of RL-23, 210Ms and Norma Brass. Velocity is a little over 2900 fps. Single digit ES.

I have a tight chamber. Cut it myself with the same reamer I used in Tucson. I had Whidden make some me some custom dies and I also have a ring die in the way if I need it to avoid the click on bolt opening.

 

[barefooter56]

I just got some Reloader 23 and would like to work up a 300WSM load with Berger 220 Long Range Hybrid Target bullets and Fed 215M primers. I'm wondering if anyone has tried this combo and could recommend a starting charge weight. I've been using H4831sc but here in AZ I'm having lot's of problems with temperature variation and hope maybe R23 may be an improvement. Thanks....

Chuck,
We have load data. Give is a call at 660-460-2802 from 8am to 4:30pm EASTERN TIME MON thru FRI !

 

[Willow]

No Ben, I don't have a tuner. Velocities at 64gr were 2,875 with the 215M and 2,837 with the 210M. I would expect somewhat lower velocities with the 220's than I would get with the 215's. Groups opened up quite a bit at 64gr.

I'm inclined to try shooting our July match with a load of around 63-63.5gr and see how that works in 100 degree plus heat. If I can get through 3 10 round HG strings without hard bolt lift or signs of pressure on my cases I'll try going up a bit with the charge the next month.

I'm using expensive Norma brass and am tired of ruining the primer pockets after 4 or 5 firings. A hard bolt lift on extraction really screws up running my strings quickly and smoothly. I'm willing to give up 100fps if by doing so I can avoid these problems.

Thanks for your comments.

Any update on how the 220s are working for you Chuck?

 

[chuckgreen]

After more testing I settled on a load of Berger 220 LRHT, 63gr of RE23, Fed 210M with the bullets seated .30 off the lands. Velocities around 2,825.

I started getting 5 shot groups consistently in the low 2's in 100 yd tests and have shot several 1K matches with this load with excellent results. Lowering the powder charge seemed to resolve the pressure/hard bolt lift issues I was having and this load runs smoothly even towards the end of my heavy gun strings at 100 degrees.

I'm done testing and will stick with this load into the foreseeable future.

 

[INTJ]

After more testing I settled on a load of Berger 220 LRHT, 63gr of RE23, Fed 210M with the bullets seated .30 off the lands. Velocities around 2,825.

I started getting 5 shot groups consistently in the low 2's in 100 yd tests and have shot several 1K matches with this load with excellent results. Lowering the powder charge seemed to resolve the pressure/hard bolt lift issues I was having and this load runs smoothly even towards the end of my heavy gun strings at 100 degrees.

I'm done testing and will stick with this load into the foreseeable future.

Chuck,

What have your 1000 yd groups been?

My load at 200 yds was averaging 5-shot groups of .6". At 600 yds shooting relay one, my LG Agg was 2.569" where the winners was 1.72". I did win for LG score. My HG agg was 3.79" while the winners was 2.785". I took off the 300 WSM barrel and put on a 6 BRA barrel.

I don't think a 17 lb 300 WSM is competitive at 600 yds and I won't get to shoot 1000 yds this year. That said, maybe I can tweak my load a little. I am building an HG 300 WSM because Bill Johnston showed us that a HG 300 WSM is indeed competitive at 600.

 

[chuckgreen]

Here in the AZ desert conditions rarely make it possible to shoot tiny groups at our 1K match. I get LG groups in the 3.5 to 5 in range from time to time when I catch the first relay but the wind makes it hard to put them together into impressive aggs.

I have good BRA barrels for both guns but never use them at 1K. The 6mm just won't hold up out here 90% of the time. I've decided to use the WSM in both my guns all the time and this gives me the best chance of shooting winning match scores in the conditions we deal with. Groups don't have to be tiny...just tight enough to win. Same with scores.

 

[INTJ]

Here in the AZ desert conditions rarely make it possible to shoot tiny groups at our 1K match. I get LG groups in the 3.5 to 5 in range from time to time when I catch the first relay but the wind makes it hard to put them together into impressive aggs.

I have good BRA barrels for both guns but never use them at 1K. The 6mm just won't hold up out here 90% of the time. I've decided to use the WSM in both my guns all the time and this gives me the best chance of shooting winning match scores in the conditions we deal with. Groups don't have to be tiny...just tight enough to win. Same with scores.

My conundrum is finding a 200 yd standard for tuning the 300 WSM. In Tucson, I tuned at 100 yds and my 1/2" 5-shot 100 yd groups resulted in five screamer groups, two club agg records, and several wins at 1000. Here in Oregon I found a .6" average for 5-shot groups at 200 yd that didn't show well at 600--it might at 1000. With the 6 BRA I know I need a 3/8" or better 5-shot group average to be competitive at 600 and 1000. I am wondering if I need something similar for the 300, though I wonder if I can get there?

 

[Willow]

After more testing I settled on a load of Berger 220 LRHT, 63gr of RE23, Fed 210M with the bullets seated .30 off the lands. Velocities around 2,825.

I started getting 5 shot groups consistently in the low 2's in 100 yd tests and have shot several 1K matches with this load with excellent results. Lowering the powder charge seemed to resolve the pressure/hard bolt lift issues I was having and this load runs smoothly even towards the end of my heavy gun strings at 100 degrees.

I'm done testing and will stick with this load into the foreseeable future.

I presume this load you have settled on is producing a nice flat waterline with minimal vertical?

 

[chuckgreen]

I presume this load you have settled on is producing a nice flat waterline with minimal vertical?

Seems to be shooting as well as I need it to. Gonna shoot our monthly 1K match a week from Saturday. I've got the first (usually the calmest) relay so I may have a chance to see how it really performs at distance.

 

[Willow]

Seems to be shooting as well as I need it to. Gonna shoot our monthly 1K match a week from Saturday. I've got the first (usually the calmest) relay so I may have a chance to see how it really performs at distance.

Keen to hear how you go Chuck and how these bullets hold up for you at distance.