Lee "collet dies"??

[NorCalMikie]

The only thing with using a "cut down" resizing die is the built in body taper. Even cutting it down 1/2" will cause problems. You end up scuffing (scraping) the lower case body just above the groove. That's one of the things I'am trying to avoid. Tried a chamfer on the die opening, still have to deal with the built in taper, And the dies are hardened so honing is a waste of time and energy. You need the proper size from the start.

 

[20 TAC]

I've been down the collet die road and may be able to help you Mike. This 204 collet die sizes: 204, 20 TAC, 20-222, and my own smaller 20 wildcat about halfway between a 20-222 and vartarg. Simply change mandrel to correct length and place bushing on extended shell holder as needed. I need to study this closer but believe we could make something work.

 

[normmatzen]

I use LEE collet dies for my 6BRX and 284 WIN long range/F Open guns. I order custom collet dies and I must send 2 fired cases and bullets I intend to use and they send me a set of a neck die and seating die custom cut for my cases/bullets. Note, they don't sell a 6BRX collet die unless custom. I don't use the seating die as I use an inline seater for both cases. I believe these sets cost around $75-$80.

Go to the LEE web site and look for "CUSTOM."

 

[NorCalMikie]

I tried the "Custom" thing at Lee. I did find out that they didn't make a collet die for the TCM because it's too short. That's as far as I went. I have ordered the .204 collet die and it's on it's way. I'll know before too long if it will work the way I want it to.

 

[GrocMax]

BRX or Dasher should work with the recently discontinued 6PPC collet die with a thin spacer. 6BR works w/o any modification since the base to neck/shoulder junction distance is really close to a PPC. If the cartridge is longer base to neck/shoulder than the intended collet die caliber its a breeze, just a spacer between the shellholder top to the bottom of the collet die body chamber. I use the 6PPC collet die for 6BR as-is, and 6TCU/6x45 with a spacer and a longer mandrel.

You could also make custom extended shellholders with the proper spacer height as shown above.

 

[Homerange]

I've been down the collet die road and may be able to help you Mike. This 204 collet die sizes: 204, 20 TAC, 20-222, and my own smaller 20 wildcat about halfway between a 20-222 and vartarg. Simply change mandrel to correct length and place bushing on extended shell holder as needed. I need to study this closer but believe we could make something work.

That's clever, simple and elegant.
Is the extended shell holder available or a custom jobbie ?

I see this as very useful if you have a # of cartridges in the same calibre; 1 die, a # of mandrels and bushings.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[swadiver]

BRX or Dasher should work with the recently discontinued 6PPC collet die with a thin spacer. 6BR works w/o any modification since the base to neck/shoulder junction distance is really close to a PPC. If the cartridge is longer base to neck/shoulder than the intended collet die caliber its a breeze, just a spacer between the shellholder top to the bottom of the collet die body chamber. I use the 6PPC collet die for 6BR as-is, and 6TCU/6x45 with a spacer and a longer mandrel.

You could also make custom extended shellholders with the proper spacer height as shown above.

my 6PPC collet die requires a .025" shim to work for my 6BR cases

 

[GrocMax]

my 6PPC collet die requires a .025" shim to work for my 6BR cases

Mine stays far enough away from the neck/shoulder junction for me without one. I'm using a co-ax press though. Either way if your preference is to move it further away from the neck/shoulder junction by all means shim it. There's .018" difference between a 6BR and a 6PPC.

 

[NorCalMikie]

The "extended" shell holders are a standard part from RCBS. Got them to fit the .223 and .308 cases. A couple of different lengths are available. There's a couple of other places that also have them. If the shell holder will fit "inside" the die body, I'll be headed in the right direction.
As far as adjustments, just back the die out/up till it fits your needs? My plan is to machine part of the lower threaded section off to shorten the die body, as/if needed. I'll know more when I take some measurements for the "shorty" case.

 

[bsekf]

Check archives for more information.

I use collet dies on longer cases by using washers on top of the shell holder, i.e. 7-08 collet die on a 7x444. Usually an AI case will work in a collet die, i.e. 7-08 collet die on a 7-08AI. A 6PPC will work on a 6BR and I even use one on a 6x47L. You have to check carefully to make sure the shoulder doesn't get bumped and you have to decap in a separate step. Lee makes a universal decapping die. I believe you could easily open the shoulder area of the die... they are not hard.

Using a collet die on a shorter case involves machine work. You have to shorten 3 parts of the die....FORGET IT.

Bill

 

[NorCalMikie]

Using a collet die on a shorter case involves machine work. You have to shorten 3 parts of the die....FORGET IT.

"I" don't have the machine but I have a friend that does!! And if you can't BUY the things already made you want/need, if you have the "machine", you can make it.

 

[bsekf]

Yes indeed! I had a 260 converted to 6.5x47L. It is not something you do with a file and dremel. Going the other way is easy, just pile up washers, I don't even worry if only 3/4 of the neck gets resized.

Bill

 

[NorCalMikie]

I don't understand the part about "pile up the washers". If the die body is threaded, and it is, why not just spin the die UP away from the shell holder and tighten the lock nut?
Going shorter I can understand. That's where the machine work comes it.

Mike.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I've not had my hands on one of these"yet"() but it looks like the decapping pin comes in different length? And is kept from going up by the cap on the top of the die body? Is that round "spacer" (?) to the left of the extended shell holder part of the collet assembly or is it in fact a spacer?

 

[20 TAC]

That's clever, simple and elegant.
Is the extended shell holder available or a custom jobbie ?

I see this as very useful if you have a # of cartridges in the same calibre; 1 die, a # of mandrels and bushings.

Thanks for sharing.

Thank you Homerange. The extended shell holders are available from Lyman, RCBS, and others. This one was machined down to appropriate length for the shortest cartridge used (in my case it was my wildcat 20), then bushings are applied to "shim" the shell holder down for the other cartridges. The shell holder reduced diameter allows the holder to fit up inside the collet die. I suspect the extremely short length of the TCM will require the use of both a shell holder modification similar to mine AND cutting the collet die body and sleeve down so as to maintain required space between collet finger slots.

 

[20 TAC]

I don't understand the part about "pile up the washers". If the die body is threaded, and it is, why not just spin the die UP away from the shell holder and tighten the lock nut?
Going shorter I can understand. That's where the machine work comes it.

Mike.

I understand how you could ask that question, but it's not quite that simple. The piece below the die body is the collet and must be pushed upwards to force the collet fingers to compress around your case neck. The critical measurement relationship is from the base of the case to the beginning of the neck/shoulder junction. So something has to move other than merely the die. If you just move the die up in the press, it will no longer contact the shell holder to compress the collets. That's where the spacers come in. Obviously then for 204 the extended shellholder is completely removed and a standard shell holder may be used. The mandrels, or decapping pins, are easily purchased through Lee and cut to appropriate length, then can be polished carefully for desired neck tension.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Thanks for that. I may be "an old dude" but still don't know everything. I'am learning as I go and you CAN teach an Old Dog new tricks. It just takes a little longer for him to learn.

 

[Homerange]

Thank you Homerange. The extended shell holders are available from Lyman, RCBS, and others. This one was machined down to appropriate length for the shortest cartridge used (in my case it was my wildcat 20), then bushings are applied to "shim" the shell holder down for the other cartridges. The shell holder reduced diameter allows the holder to fit up inside the collet die. I suspect the extremely short length of the TCM will require the use of both a shell holder modification similar to mine AND cutting the collet die body and sleeve down so as to maintain required space between collet finger slots.

Thanks 20TAC.
What's the tricks for determining shell holder and then bushing lengths for each case length ?
I've got a lathe and can easy spin things up.
Are any of the extended shell holders particularly hard material ? Have you found one brand softer/easier to machine than others ?

 

[NorCalMikie]

Are any of the extended shell holders particularly hard material ? Have you found one brand softer/easier to machine than others ?

I have a couple of the RCBS extended shell holders and they are HARD. Tried running a file across one to check.
Seems like I had one other brand and it was softer and able to be turned.
RCBS extended shell holders = one at 1 1/4" and the other at 1 1/2" long. Seems like the other one I had was maybe Lyman (?) that I was able to get machined. (been a while)
The extended shell holders are only used on seater dies. They fit up inside the seater die body. The sizer dies are a close fit on the case for support.
If they will fit inside the Lee die body..

 

[20 TAC]

Thanks 20TAC.
What's the tricks for determining shell holder and then bushing lengths for each case length ?
I've got a lathe and can easy spin things up.
Are any of the extended shell holders particularly hard material ? Have you found one brand softer/easier to machine than others ?

I used Lyman extended shell holders and they were plenty soft to cut without carbide. For figuring length, the measurement for the 204 from base of case to neck/shoulder junction is 1.650". So I know the bottom of the collet begins in that area. For my shortest 20 cal. round (Vartarg), the base to neck/shoulder measurement is about 1.176", so we machined .474" off the extended shell holder so the piece of brass and holder would go up inside the die without altering the die. That allowed the entire neck of the Vartarg to be collet sized. The 204 mandrel had to be trimmed appropriately....475" shorter. My 20 wildcat base/neck shoulder is about 1.350", so the spacer thickness is .174" thick and slides over the machined portion of the shellholder. Another mandrel must be made. 1.650" (204) minus 1.350" = 204 mandrel less .300". Hope that helps??