Lapua FTR 30 cal bullet choice

[Jefferson]

instead of using the Berger 185 Juggernauts which of the Lapua bullets would be best suited to FTR, long throat, running about 2700-2750 fps, at 1000 yards. Just want a second bullet to try in some barrels, would the 175 (GB550) or 185 (GB432) work best, any consensus

Jeff

 

[CH Luke]

FWIW, after spending a lot of time researching here and with other competitors I am in the development stages of a load with the 200 Hybrid to add to my competition options. While I have a fully developed 185 Juggs match load that is a 2830 fps laser for me out to 600 I was looking for something a bit more wind resistant at 1000 yards.

My twist is 1:11 on 30" and a chamber cut for both the Juggs and the 200 Hybrid. Hope to end up around 2650 to 2700 fps burning H4895.

 

[Scott Harris]

I don't know of any competitive F-TR shooters using Lapua bullets. Much as I'd love to have an alternative to Berger, they currently seem to have a monopoly on top-notch F-TR bullets. Stick with the Berger 185 hybrid, 185 Juggernaut, 200 Hybrid, or 215 Hybrid until another manufacturer produces a competitive bullet. some people have had success with the 208 A-Maxes.

 

[XTR]

What Scott said.

In long range F-TR BC rules. Lapua surely makes a good product but the BC on bullets of comparable weight to the Berger offerings just isn't up to scratch.

Then bullets like the 208 Amax that have a great BC but the long bearing surface builds pressure and keeps the sane velocities down so they really don't out perform the 200 Hybrid on the target at 1000.

Now, that said, for a beginner I'd suggest getting 600 or 1000 Hornady 178s at 40% less than the Bergers and using them until you are good enough to take advantage of the better bullets. Until you are routinely shooting 190 at 1000 yards with 178s you aren't buying much going to the Berger Jugg or the 200s for $20 more per 100 bullets. You're losing points to wind on missed calls that you are going to lose no matter what bullet you shoot. Once your skill at reloading and shooting improves then go to the yellow boxes. In the mean time save yourself the price of a the new barrel while you learn.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Now, that said, for a beginner I'd suggest getting 600 or 1000 Hornady 178s at 40% less than the Bergers and using them until you are good enough to take advantage of the better bullets. Until you are routinely shooting 190 at 1000 yards with 178s you aren't buying much going to the Berger Jugg or the 200s for $20 more per 100 bullets.

I tend to agree, but only if you can find 600-1000 of the same lot of the Hornadys. Adding changing lot numbers and the common dimensional differences and needed reloading adjustments every 100 bullets is more than new shooters need to be trying to keep up with. Find a good .308 match bullet in that weight class and buy 500-1000 of the same lot so you don't have one more variable changing on you while you are figuring out the rest of it. That bullet may be a Hornady, Sierra, Lapua, or Berger. The Hornadys don't save enough $ to fight the lot variations.

 

[XTR]

I haven't used the Hornady offerings in a few yrs, but the ones I had I don't recall variations in the base to ogive once seated. I also bought them is boxes of 600 so the lot wasn't an issue. I've also found that if you start out jumping 10 to 15 then ±.005 seating depth doesn't make that much difference to the on target precision of a 308 esp one fired from a bipod at a 1MOA 10 ring at 1000 yards.

I have gotten as much as .030 base to ogive variations between lots of Berger 185 Juggs, so I wouldn't swoon over Bergers just yet. The variation I have seen in the 185s seems to be all in the back, and the relationship between where the seater stem contacts and the ogive is the same. The result is that when seated the base to ogive for the bullet, and thus the jump, is uniform across lots.

I first started noticing it when pointing Bergers, the longer ones are longer overall and feel different in the pointer.

 

[Trevor60]

The books reports the the 175 and 185 are within 5 points on the G7 scale. I haven't shot the 175 but have shot the 185's Scenars they are accurate and available... they do not match up well against the Bergers for BC. If it is about competition look at the 175's they are lighter you can get higher speeds and they have the higher BC against the Lapua 185's Scenars.

If you need a practice round to conserve your 185 bergers for matches get the 185's scenars they are the same weight have similar recoil and with the lower BC the bullets will have a greater sensitivity to wind changes.

I found the 185's scenars to be very consistent when measuring

all calculations using JBM and the pre populated standard atmospheric numbers

Weight...G7...speed...10mph wind drift 1,000
L 175 BC .247 2850_____8.9moa
L 185 BC .242 2750_____9.7
B 185 BC .283 2750_____7.7

out of the box thinking

Lapua 155's .236 3000_____8.7


Trevor

 

[Berger.Fan222]

all calculations using JBM and the pre populated standard atmospheric numbers

Weight...G7...speed...10mph wind drift 1,000
L 175 BC .247 2850_____8.9moa
L 185 BC .242 2750_____9.7
B 185 BC .283 2750_____7.7

out of the box thinking

Lapua 155's .236 3000_____8.7


Trevor

I've given a lot of consideration to various 155s using similar calculations. I tend to lean more toward the 155 TMK with a G7 BC closer to 0.250.

But in the back of my mind, I don't really believe wind drift is only about BC and velocity. I believe that heavier bullets seem to drift less if all other factors are equal. One day I need to do a side by side with 223 and 308 bullets of the same velocity and BC and see if this weird idea is right. Until then, I think I will carry a bias for the heavier bullets.

 

[XTR]

I've given a lot of consideration to various 155s using similar calculations. I tend to lean more toward the 155 TMK with a G7 BC closer to 0.250.

Don't be too quick to accept Sierra's numbers for the 155TMK. Bryan tested them and he found them to be identical to the [2156] 155 Palma bullet (they come pointed in the box). Personally if they are pretty much identical I'd take the cheaper Palma bullet with out plastic parts.

Search around, he posted it in here somewhere.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Don't be too quick to accept Sierra's numbers for the 155TMK. Bryan tested them and he found them to be identical to the [2156] 155 Palma bullet (they come pointed in the box). Personally if they are pretty much identical I'd take the cheaper Palma bullet with out plastic parts.

Search around, he posted it in here somewhere.

I'm more inclined to keep an open mind in cases where two reliable sources disagree with each other. I've shot most of the other 155s. A side by side test for drop and wind drift is easy enough to do. Since the prices are so close, I'd like to give the plastic tipped bullets a try. I also tend to prefer plastic tipped bullets for double duty on deer and varmints.

 

[Trevor60]

I had a reamer originally designed to shoot the 155 lapua scenars and then switched to the 185 bergers (eventually) and there was no additional throating needed. IF you spec'd your throat for 185's the 155 lapua should work just fin they are a long 155 built at 1.29.

 

[mao0720]

I had a reamer originally designed to shoot the 155 lapua scenars and then switched to the 185 bergers (eventually) and there was no additional throating needed. IF you spec'd your throat for 185's the 155 lapua should work just fin they are a long 155 built at 1.29.

Very true. I had my chamber throated out to shoot 185gr+ bullets, but I still wanted to have the option to shoot 155gr bullets if I ever wanted too. I have a .177 freebore now, and the 155gr Scenars fit perfectly in in it. The 155gr Scenar and the 185gr Juggernaut have nearly the same bearing surface so their ideal freebores are very similar.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

My guess would be that 155s may not be the most suitable for a .308 with a long throat, as the OP stated his rifle has.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've had a lot of bullets shoot < 0.5 MOA over the years that were nowhere near the lands. I also seem to recall not having much difficulty getting close to the lands with 155 grain bullets on a rifle throated for 185s. We were also surprised to find that the 185s shoot better in that rifle a bit further back.

 

[Jefferson]

Thanks for the good info so far.

I was hoping to see if the GREAT CONSISTENTCY of the Papua helps at the target. I know Eric and Walt quite well and have had some experience in bullet design and stock design. When the new 7mm 180grain Lapua came out the bullet measured almost perfect from bullet to bullet in large lot numbers as I recall. So does the lapua line of new bullet consistency apply to the 175 and 185 30 caliber bullets for FTR?

I know the Bergers have a higher BC but if the Lapua bullet has a better flight does this translate to some nice round somewhat small group patterns on the 1000 yard target. Just thinking the Lapua may be Built more consistent?

Not knocking the 185 Juggs as they may be one of the chosen few at the 2017 worlds in Canada and I may be using them but just wishing to experiment as the Lapuas are available in Canada and a second bullet choice for some barrels does prove helpful from time to time,

Again not a knock on Berger just asking


Jefferson

 

[3081FTR]

Thanks for the good info so far.

I was hoping to see if the GREAT CONSISTENTCY of the Papua helps at the target. I know Eric and Walt quite well and have had some experience in bullet design and stock design. When the new 7mm 180grain Lapua came out the bullet measured almost perfect from bullet to bullet in large lot numbers as I recall. So does the lapua line of new bullet consistency apply to the 175 and 185 30 caliber bullets for FTR?

I know the Bergers have a higher BC but if the Lapua bullet has a better flight does this translate to some nice round somewhat small group patterns on the 1000 yard target. Just thinking the Lapua may be Built more consistent?

Not knocking the 185 Juggs as they may be one of the chosen few at the 2017 worlds in Canada and I may be using them but just wishing to experiment as the Lapuas are available in Canada and a second bullet choice for some barrels does prove helpful from time to time,

Again not a knock on Berger just asking


Jefferson

I have both Lapua 185s and 185 bergers. I'm not sure what you mean by better flight as the Bergers shoot extremely accurately over long strings....do you mean more tolerant, in that less precision is needed in the reloading room? IMO if you do the fundamentals of load dev well, then at 1000 yards in FTR, wind is where the greatest number of points will be lost and your score won't reflect the difference between 1/4moa or 1/2moa load but it will reflect your wind calls. The BC difference between a Lapua 185 and a Berger 185 is significant. My experience has been that you don't need to be a world class shooter to realise the BC gain of the bergers at 1000 relative to the Lapua. Note this comment is only in relation to your personal points aggs not where you might finish on the leaderboard.

FWIW shooting the Lapua 185s at 100 yards - I have used them to get scopes on paper and fouling barrels etc - and they always pleasantly surprised me whenever I shot them at how tight they shot considering the loads were not developed around them at all. My impression is that they are a tolerant bullet.

Personally I would look at the 155 scenar if you wanted to shoot Lapua in FTR. It is a long bullet - I understand that throating for a 185 Jug will also work for a 155 scenar but don't have any experience in this.

Lapua - why don't you make a high BC bullet for FTR - why is the focus on FO? Maybe Erik needs to shoot FTR for a while

 

[Jefferson]

thanks looks like for the 30 cal 185 type of bullet I will stick with the bergers

Jeff

 

[Down South]

thanks looks like for the 30 cal 185 type of bullet I will stick with the bergers

Jeff

Good choice, for 185s the Bergers are hard to beat (juggernaut or hybrid) and very easy to load for. I've tested/tried bullet weights from 155 to 230s in FTR competition with different bullets from different manufacturers (Berger, JLK, Lapua, Hornady, Sierra). From what i've seen the Bergers and JLKs are about the best out there when you consider BC, easy to tune, consistent measurements/weights, etc. I love the Lapua bullets as they are very accurate and have very consistent measurements but the low BC numbers keep me from shooting them. I haven't tried the super high BC solid bullets a few companies are making now, they intrigue me but it's hard for me to justify spending 2 to 3 times more money than i'm spending now on bullets.

 

[Down South]

FWIW, after spending a lot of time researching here and with other competitors I am in the development stages of a load with the 200 Hybrid to add to my competition options. While I have a fully developed 185 Juggs match load that is a 2830 fps laser for me out to 600 I was looking for something a bit more wind resistant at 1000 yards.

My twist is 1:11 on 30" and a chamber cut for both the Juggs and the 200 Hybrid. Hope to end up around 2650 to 2700 fps burning H4895.

I run a 11 twist Bartlein (.170 freebore) with 200s and 210s. Both shoot extremely well out to 1000. You shouldn't have any trouble getting to the speed you listed with H4895 and 200s.

 

[6.5x47 lapua]

I run a 11 twist Bartlein (.170 freebore) with 200s and 210s. Both shoot extremely well out to 1000. You shouldn't have any trouble getting to the speed you listed with H4895 and 200s.

did you experiment with any slower powders shooting the 210,s in a 32' barrel?

 

[Down South]

did you experiment with any slower powders shooting the 210,s in a 32' barrel?

With 200s in my particular barrel H4895 & Varget shoots just about the same accuracy wise with H4895 giving slightly more velocity (20-25 ftps more). With the 210s I found Varget a tad more accurate than H4895 (my particular barrel, yours may be different) and as you know Varget is a tad slower burning than H4895. I haven't tried any powder slower than Varget with the 210s. The .170 freebore wouldn't be long enough to try H4350 etc. with the 210s. You would be compressing to try and get enough powder in the case to reach the pressure you are getting with Varget. If your freebore would be longer it might be worth a try but the accuracy/speed i get with Varget keeps me from experimenting with other powders and longer throats.