Lapua 6.5X284 brass to .284 win question

[Sniper338]

First i think its rediculous lapua wont just make regular .284 brass... but thats a different topic.

Ok, ive read a few places that using the lapua 6.5x284 brass to neck up to regular 284 win can cause issues... most common thing ive found in my research said it can or will form donuts on the neck...

How do yall go about doing this? Whats the best way? Or should i avoid it and just buy norma brass?

I have a sinclair expander die and an assortment of mandrels on the way to my house already... can i just use the .284 expander mandrel on this 6.5x284 lapua brass? Seems logical to me so far...

 

[ShootDots]

I hope you got the CARBIDE expander mandrel. It makes life so much simpler. However, that, as you say, is another topic. After you expand the 6.5 x 284 brass to .284, that is when you TURN down your necks and cut about 1/16 of an inch into the shoulder area. The "fold of brass" there created by the expansion of the neck will be cleared off, thus MINIMIZING, although NOT eliminating, the creation of a doughnut down the road.

 

[Sniper338]

I hope you got the CARBIDE expander mandrel. It makes life so much simpler. However, that, as you say, is another topic. After you expand the 6.5 x 284 brass to .284, that is when you TURN down your necks and cut about 1/16 of an inch into the shoulder area. The "fold of brass" there created by the expansion of the neck will be cleared off, thus MINIMIZING, although NOT eliminating, the creation of a doughnut down the road.

Ok, not hard at all. Is it worth the time for being able to use lapua brass over norma is the next question... and yes, now per our other convo i should have just had this barrel done in 284 shehane as well haha...

 

[ShootDots]

I hope you got the CARBIDE expander mandrel. It makes life so much simpler. However, that, as you say, is another topic. After you expand the 6.5 x 284 brass to .284, that is when you TURN down your necks and cut about 1/16 of an inch into the shoulder area. The "fold of brass" there created by the expansion of the neck will be cleared off, thus MINIMIZING, although NOT eliminating, the creation of a doughnut down the road.

Ok, not hard at all. Is it worth the time for being able to use lapua brass over norma is the next question... and yes, now per our other convo i should have just had this barrel done in 284 shehane as well haha...

Is it worth it to use the Lapua over the Norma>>> well I will let you know by spring next year. That will give me time to COMPLETELY evaluate the strength and thus the longevity of the Norma brass. I bought 300 pieces. So far it appears to be excellent. But that is with load development brass. Once I get to the competitions, I will find out if it can withstand extended strings of fire. So far about the only difference is, is that the Norma brass has developed a doughnut, in my opinion, very prematurely..

 

[FeMan]

I prepared my Lapua brass just as Shoot Dots described. I have six firings on it with no issues. My reamer allows me to seat the base ahead of any donut ring. I also bought some Norma brass but haven't tried it yet.

 

[Brians356]

You might consider fireforming "bulletless" using a small charge of Bullseye or some other handy fast powder?

I fireform my 250 Savage AI cases from 22-250 brass. You're not improving the body, but it would work fine, and require a somewhat smaller charge just expanding the neck.

 

[riflewoman]

Not bullseye it's too fast and can give pressure spikes. Herco and other powders like that work better.

 

[Brians356]

Not bullseye it's too fast and can give pressure spikes. Herco and other powders like that work better.

I use Bullseye. Works great for me. Isn't a quick pressure spike just the impetus one wants to improve a case with no bullet?

What, in your experience, would be the tell-tale signs of a deleterious pressure spike when fireforming a case? Maybe I missed some.

Ken Howell* recommends Bullseye, with [important!] pistol primers, and that's good enough for me.

[* Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges for Rifles and Handguns, 1995]

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I use bullseye for bulletless case forming. If i was to want 284 from 6.5x284 id load them with bullseye and form them without doing anything else like we do ppc cases and 30br. Expands them very nicely without a mandrel plowing thru. Then you wont have far to go to expand/turn

 

[deepwater]

I like the idea of bulletless fire forming to expand necks only. Will that totally eliminate the donut formation developed with conventional expanding?

Sniper338 has a beautiful switch barrel XP100 he is setting up for 1000 yard ranges. Good luck with your load development.

deepwater

 

[Brians356]

Will that totally eliminate the donut formation developed with conventional expanding?

I've never experience any donuts, and never read any reference to donuts associated with fireforming case. Donuts are usually associated with using a forming die to squeeze a larger case down to a shorter case, whence brass previously in the shoulder becomes part of the new neck.

 

[potatoe]

Let me first say that I'm not a .284 guru. I am using the 6.5x284 lapua brass in a straight .284 and am having good results. I just expanded them and shot em. I have 2-3 firings on them and no donut issues - yet. My reamer is no turn but I did turn them to get the high (I had slightly over half thou. variance before turning them) spots and treated them like any other, going slightly into the shoulder. All I did was neck them up with a 7mm expander. I don't have any complaints, ES in the teens very good accuracy. Im using a tube gun so its not a BR gun but still does .3 moa regularly even just from a bipod.

 

[Sniper338]

Fire forming without a bullet has me curious... With the 284, and some others things I have going on.



NOT with a 284, but a different project, I've heard a lot about just going ahead and load developing while fire forming to an ackley shoulder, that great accuracy can be found while fire forming...

I was going to try this tonight, but I ran into a new lapua brass and too tight of necks even after resized with the expander ball on the die issue again. I dont know what the heck is going on but the lapua brass ive got lately is obscurely tight. I tried to seat a bullet and the seater stem dents and disforms the bullet the case necks are so tight on this new brass.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I know people that shoot a 6mm bullet in a 30cal barrel to form their 30br brass. Same thing with a 22 bullet in a 6ppc barrel.

 

[Sniper338]

I know people that shoot a 6mm bullet in a 30cal barrel to form their 30br brass. Same thing with a 22 bullet in a 6ppc barrel.

That doesnt sound good. I couldnt do that myself safety wise. BUT, HOWEVER, I did just get done expirementing fire forming 22250 into 22250AI... It opened up the necks perfectly, fireformed perfectly once I got the load right. I used Bullseye powder and malt-o-meal with a paper towel plug in the end. Worked well, but time consuming.. and it did leave malt-o-meal everywhere for me to vaccum up.. It left a bit inside the cases I gotta get out too, but all in all it does work good. Good enough to size this new brass with a bushing now and hopefully it works this time.

It really didnt leave the barrel too dirty either, I cleaned it, it was dirty, but much less than I expected.. As far as with doing this with 65x285 brass to get 284 straight that just may be a very good way to do it too. Didnt have a single problem...

 

[riflewoman]

Bullseye can be spikey if you use cornmeal. With just a wax plug perhaps not.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I do not use any filler. It gets stuck in the shoulder and could create pressure. I use toilet paper or best of all nothing as filler. Works fine

 

[Brians356]

I did just get done expirementing fire forming 22250 into 22250AI... It opened up the necks perfectly, fireformed perfectly once I got the load right. I used Bullseye powder and malt-o-meal with a paper towel plug in the end. Worked well, but time consuming.. and it did leave malt-o-meal everywhere for me to vaccum up.. It left a bit inside the cases I gotta get out too, but all in all it does work good.

Next time I will skip the filler, tissue wad, and plug, and just use Bullseye. All that other stuff is mostly to hold the powder in place while handling and transporting the cases. I think with a little more powder than before (+ 20%?), I can charge a case on the spot using a Lee powder dipper pre-selected to provide the right charge, chamber the case with the rifle angled upward, then fire it w/ the rifle held vertical. Saves a lot of time and just a little powder fouling in the bore.

Edit: Oops, just saw Dusty's post before mine.

+1 !!!

 

[Brians356]

Bullseye can be spikey if you use cornmeal. With just a wax plug perhaps not.

Again, with all due respect, please explain: How is "spikey" pressure a problem when expanding a case w/ no bullet? What is the deleterious effect you have experienced, and are trying to avoid? Difficult case extraction, for example? Malformed brass?

Howell used both Bullseye and filler. What was he missing, doing it that way for decades?

The whole reason fast powder is used is because it provides just such a rapid pressure spike to quickly expand the case, lacking a bullet's inertia to provide containment and allow the pressure to build up and do the work more slowly.

I'm ready to be enlightened.

 

[rrgertz64]

I use bullseye for bulletless case forming. If i was to want 284 from 6.5x284 id load them with bullseye and form them without doing anything else like we do ppc cases and 30br. Expands them very nicely without a mandrel plowing thru. Then you wont have far to go to expand/turn

How much bullseye would you use for 6.5X284 to 284 WIN.