• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

LABRADAR PROS AND CONS

Agreed on this part. And not many understand confidence intervals and just how they're affected by N, and hence how little (statistical) confidence they can have in 3-5 shot strings.

I've been chewing on getting a LabRadar for awhile now. I just hate it when a manufacturer tosses out a technical specification that is utterly meaningless. Currently I use the Two Box Chrono. I have confidence in its inherent precision (very low random error SD) because I've studied the dataset Adam put up on his website. It's accuracy (how well it measures absolute velocity) is very setup-dependent (likely much more so than LabRadar); so much so that I simply don't fuss with setup and rely on it for SD only. It has a few other constraints (forward of firing point, picks up a LOT of other shots on a busy range etc) but these are generally manageable plus it's damn cheap. It does what it was designed for extremely well. I rely on my Shotmarker for average velocity (and back calc muzzle velocity). That said I like toys and it would be nice to see the LabRadar provide both good precision and accuracy.

I called LabRadar and asked them the question about their accuracy statement. I didn't expect the guy who answered the phone to know the answer but sure hope he goes and gets it. Politely he took down my email address and said he would respond. I hope he does. We shall see.

I seem to recall asking someone at LabRadar the same question some time ago. I don't actually remember what the specific answer was, but I do seem to recall he at least gave me an answer. Hopefully, the LabRadar folks will address your inquiry in a satisfactory manner.

In some cases, manufacturers provide performance analysis results for their equipment in very nebulous terms when they really don't want too much attention given to any specific measure of accuracy/precision. A very good example is analytical balances. Inexpensive analytical balances of questionable reliability often provide calibration figures in such a way it is very difficult to determine exactly what they mean. In contrast, high end analytical balance manufacturers such as Mettler, Sartorious, OHaus, etc., actually provide calibration data far beyond what most users would ever need or even understand in most cases. In other words, they must really want the users to know how good their products are. With the various chronographs I've owned, I don't recall ever seeing a velocity measurement accuracy number that wasn't simply a percent. If you get a good explanation of what that value really is, please share it with the rest of us here. :)

As far as accuracy and precision, in the last few years, I have used both a MagnetoSpeed and more recently, the LabRadar. In terms of direct comparisons using both chronographs, the precision was equally good as far as I could tell. All variations within any single velocity data set were faithfully reproduced by both units. However, the LabRadar consistently returned a value slightly below that of the MagnetoSpeed (lower, but within ~10 fps, or less). The difference between the two units was small enough that it didn't make a noticeable difference in terms of bullet drop at 600 to 100 yd. In terms of "accuracy", I have had very good results from either unit in terms of using the established velocity numbers along with BC and atmospherics to predict drop at various distances out to 1000 yd. However, my readout for that is often based on comparing where my elevation turret ends up in order to center a shot string in F-Class competition at some set distance to my known 100 yd zero, which is not necessarily the most accurate way to do it. Nonetheless, it represents one "real world" use for chronograph data. In actuality, I am often surprised how close to the target center I can put shots with loads I have never fired at distances over 100 yd, so presumably the velocity data can't too far off. I still hesitate to read too much into though, simply due to my sample size typically being only 4 or 5 shots.

I have been a big fan of the MagnetoSpeed since it was first released. It is very reliable and fairly simple to use. However, it's weakness is that it affects barrel harmonics and can interfere with the load development process. The advantages of the LabRadar are that it doesn't affect barrel harmonics. That is a big deal for me...no more loading double the number of test rounds to shoot the same load with the MagnetoSpeed for velocity, and without, for grouping. The LabRadar certainly has a few quirks/issues, such as picking up shots from neighboring shooters. But all in all, I find it to be a step up from the MagnetoSpeed in term of convenience and usefulness.
 
Last edited:
Just received my new Labradar last nite UPS. Reading the back of the quick start guide and read the registration note. Instructs us to register our unit serial # in order to receive firmware updates. Serial # is located underneath the battery cover below the bar code tab and on the box. Looks very good.
 
Bill, FWIW - I had a little trouble with mine on the first outing, due, in part, to not reading the instructions carefully, and in part to a somewhat misleading picture in the instructions. My unit will not pick up the muzzle blast to trigger the radar when set up as shown in the picture in the manual; with the unit placed directly along side the muzzle. I have to place it ~ 6" to the side, and maybe 4" in front of the muzzle. Even then, I usually keep the trigger setting on "2" (i.e. 2nd most sensitive setting). You'll want to be familiar with both the trigger and sensitivity settings in order to tweak the setup at the range, if necessary.

Also, I picked up an inexpensive 1.25" bushing/ferrule at Lowes, which I glued directly onto the aiming "V-notch" at the top center of the unit with 100% silicone rubber. I don't remember the exact diameter of the hole through the bushing, maybe 5/16" or so, but it's much easier to sight in on your targets looking through the bushing as opposed to the notch. Good luck!
 
Bill, FWIW - I had a little trouble with mine on the first outing, due, in part, to not reading the instructions carefully, and in part to a somewhat misleading picture in the instructions. My unit will not pick up the muzzle blast to trigger the radar when set up as shown in the picture in the manual; with the unit placed directly along side the muzzle. I have to place it ~ 6" to the side, and maybe 4" in front of the muzzle. Even then, I usually keep the trigger setting on "2" (i.e. 2nd most sensitive setting). You'll want to be familiar with both the trigger and sensitivity settings in order to tweak the setup at the range, if necessary.

Also, I picked up an inexpensive 1.25" bushing/ferrule at Lowes, which I glued directly onto the aiming "V-notch" at the top center of the unit with 100% silicone rubber. I don't remember the exact diameter of the hole through the bushing, maybe 5/16" or so, but it's much easier to sight in on your targets looking through the bushing as opposed to the notch. Good luck!

WOW Thanks Bro for the info. I will make note of your findings for sure. Was wondering if u or anyone might know which one of these firmware updates is the most recent? Please see pic below. Thanks again

upload_2019-11-15_18-5-24.png
 
Sorry - I have no idea about the firmware.

The only other quirk I can think of that you might encounter in your first trip out with the LabRadar has to do with signals that might arise from adjacent shooters. Because of the way I have to set the sensitivity on mine (fairly sensitive), it will occasionally pick up a muzzle report (signal) from another shooter, if there's one right next to me. It's not a big issue. In many cases, it will give an error message because the radar beam can't "see" the neighbor's projectile. Even if it does give a velocity readout, it will usually be grossly different than my actual readings, and is therefore easy to pick out and delete from the string after I've finished shooting it. Either way, it's not necessary to crawl out from behind the rifle to check/correct it, until you've finished the shooting string. LabRadar sells an external mic hookup with a mounting bracket for ~$50 that would likely render the minor issues I've had moot...I just haven't gotten around to ordering one yet.
 
Sorry - I have no idea about the firmware.

The only other quirk I can think of that you might encounter in your first trip out with the LabRadar has to do with signals that might arise from adjacent shooters. Because of the way I have to set the sensitivity on mine (fairly sensitive), it will occasionally pick up a muzzle report (signal) from another shooter, if there's one right next to me. It's not a big issue. In many cases, it will give an error message because the radar beam can't "see" the neighbor's projectile. Even if it does give a velocity readout, it will usually be grossly different than my actual readings, and is therefore easy to pick out and delete from the string after I've finished shooting it. Either way, it's not necessary to crawl out from behind the rifle to check/correct it, until you've finished the shooting string. LabRadar sells an external mic hookup with a mounting bracket for ~$50 that would likely render the minor issues I've had moot...I just haven't gotten around to ordering one yet.
Changing the Chanel on the LR will stop it picking up your next door neighbours..
 
Anyone know what the 'Firmware B' thing is about? My firmware A is at 1.2.4 but I think B is a 1.0.0.

Never tried to update it, but can't imagine it needs two versions of FW to run....unless they're for different components.

Anyone else updated Firmware B only?
 
Can you elaborate? Changing what "channel"? Not sure what you're referring to, but I'd certainly give it a go if you can explain further.
Open the TX Chanel option in the menu then choose from 12 different channels, make sure it’s a different Chanel to other LR on the firing line and you shouldn’t have a problem..
 

Attachments

  • DC3082B9-AD96-48F6-927E-BF4719CA7617.jpeg
    DC3082B9-AD96-48F6-927E-BF4719CA7617.jpeg
    152.5 KB · Views: 37
  • C759D3DF-EE0A-4B0E-A106-2CDAEBB8B1CA.jpeg
    C759D3DF-EE0A-4B0E-A106-2CDAEBB8B1CA.jpeg
    158.2 KB · Views: 35
Anyone know what the 'Firmware B' thing is about? My firmware A is at 1.2.4 but I think B is a 1.0.0.

Never tried to update it, but can't imagine it needs two versions of FW to run....unless they're for different components.

Anyone else updated Firmware B only?


Have not seen anything about B at all. I sent Labradar an email requesting info as to which one is the latest.
 
Open the TX Chanel option in the menu then choose from 12 different channels, make sure it’s a different Chanel to other LR on the firing line and you shouldn’t have a problem..

I see what you're saying. What I'm describing is an issue where the muzzle blast of an adjacent shooter activates the microphone trigger on my LabRadar, due to the relatively high sensitivity setting I have to use. This makes my LabRadar think I have fired a shot when I have not. I don't believe it is a channel issue with an adjacent LabRadar unit, solely someone else's muzzle report activating my acoustic trigger. If I turn down the sensitivity of my LabRadar, it will start to miss some of my own shots. I think buying and using the external mic is the simplest solution to the problem.
 
Open the TX Chanel option in the menu then choose from 12 different channels, make sure it’s a different Chanel to other LR on the firing line and you shouldn’t have a problem..
The LR is definitely a slick unit no question about it and I just learned a bit more.
thx Buddy
J
 
Great thread. Have learned a few things about the LR I didn't know although I've own it for about 3 years now. This was my first chronograph so I don't have experience with other devices. I can say that alignment has not been an issue for me. I don't use the notch at the top of the unit but try to match the angle of the barrel. Remember that when shooting at distance, the bullet will be raising at the beginning of the trajectory so the unit needs to be angled up rather than line of sight.

If you play around with the settings in the menu, this thing will track anything down to a .177 BB. I've used it routinely to track 40 grain subsonic 22LR projectiles with no problems.

I have had trouble with the LR picking up shots from other shooters nearby but I think I can mitigate this by adjusting the sensitivity setting.

I can also comment on Labradar's customer service. For whatever reason, my early production unit had something rattling around inside and a crack in the case on one of the corners that appeared to be from over-torquing a nearby fastener . I've never dropped the unit and it was functioning fine but I was concerned that something loose inside might goof something up. So I emailed them and they said "send it in for service" I did so and was expecting to receive an email or phone call with what it would cost to fix/repair the unit and how long it would take. Before I even received anything like this, the unit came back completely repaired at no cost. This was within a week and a few days of shipping it to them. From my experience, I would give Labradar a well deserved excellent rating for standing behind their product and supporting their customers. Fast service is definitely a plus.

A game changer in the consumer chronograph arena.

My 2¢ worth
 
Last edited:
Getting ready to order one. This thread has been a great help in making my decision but I Just need one more question answered before I place my order. How close does another shooter need to be before the LR will pick up the muzzle blast from another shooter? My clubs 300 yard range is parrallel about 20' away from the pistol steel plinking range with times of rapid fire strings, there is a 8' high concrete wall separating the two. Any chance of the LR being triggered?
 
Getting ready to order one. This thread has been a great help in making my decision but I Just need one more question answered before I place my order. How close does another shooter need to be before the LR will pick up the muzzle blast from another shooter? My clubs 300 yard range is parrallel about 20' away from the pistol steel plinking range with times of rapid fire strings, there is a 8' high concrete wall separating the two. Any chance of the LR being triggered?


Probably not according to what I've read since the sensitivity can be adjusted as mentioned in an earlier post above.
 
Getting ready to order one. This thread has been a great help in making my decision but I Just need one more question answered before I place my order. How close does another shooter need to be before the LR will pick up the muzzle blast from another shooter? My clubs 300 yard range is parrallel about 20' away from the pistol steel plinking range with times of rapid fire strings, there is a 8' high concrete wall separating the two. Any chance of the LR being triggered?
No chance
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,927
Messages
2,206,435
Members
79,220
Latest member
Sccrcut8
Back
Top