Kahles K1050

[Scott Harris]

Is the kahles worth the extra cost over the golden eagle. If it is better, in what ways is it better? How does the glass compare?

more reliable, better glass, better turrets. The Kahles is almost twice as expensive, so it's an unfair comparison, but there you go. Don't get me wrong, I think you are getting your money's worth with a Vortex and they do well in competition.

The glass clarity/brightness discussions are interesting. The Kahles has more of a yellow tint and the NF/March scopes are brighter/whiter. My understanding is this just reflects different coatings used. You might think brighter/whiter is better to the eye, but I find the yellow tint cuts through the Arizona mirage much better than the brighter/whiter scopes. Glass quality is subjective, but I think just about any scope over $400 has quality/clarity good enough for target shooting...pick what YOUR eyes prefer. The real optical challenge is shooting in heavy mirage.

To me, the real differentiator of the Kahles 1050 scope is the turrets. They are one of the only scopes to provide 20 MOA of travel and 1/8th clicks. I think this is super important for 1K F-class shooting where the wind blows. The zero stop is best of breed. Finally, for overall reliability and consistency of click values, the Kahles is unrivaled. This last point is the most important to me. If you can't rely on the scope, its worthless in competition.

 

[Hohn]

I think Scott summed it up pretty well. The Kahles turrets are excellent and better than the GE.

I’m sure that a Kahles is reliable. But I don’t know that the GE is any less so. It could be less reliable. But for the price difference you could buy a backup GE. And the vortex warranty makes a backup scope a pretty viable strategy. In the unlikely event the Kahles fails will they swap it for you? No questions asked?

I’d ask myself if the Kahles is as reliable as two GEs. It might be. It might be more so.

The GE is made in Japan. The Kahles is made in Austria (I think). Both countries have well-deserved reputations for optical excellence and excellent capability in precision manufacturing.

I’m fortunate to have a couple world-class possessions so I completely understand the satisfaction of knowing you have an excellent lifetime-grade item. So I’ll never disparage the choice to go top shelf.

The GE is overall I think a pretty competitive choice given the warranty and price.

 

[Hohn]

Is the kahles worth the extra cost over the golden eagle. If it is better, in what ways is it better? How does the glass compare?

The question of value is intensely personal and I don’t think anybody but you can say whether you will find the difference worth it.

I will suggest that the right way to think about such things isn’t whether something is worth a given prices. Rather, the way to think is in terms of trade offs and marginal cost. Is a feature *difference* worth a price *difference* to you?

I was actually considering a March High Master, but after shooting the GE, I concluded for myself that the only way a scope could be worth a substantial premium over it was if I needed extra brightness above 40x, as the brightness (and thus contrast) take a big hit over 40x. But even 60x on a cloudy day was usable with aperture ring in place—a true worst case. So the drop in brightness above 40x, while not desired, wasn’t dispositive in my decision. Dialing down as an option although I haven’t needed to yet. And the morning mirage last time out was rough.

And the only way you’ll get truly good brightness at these magnifications is in a spotter or something with a substantially larger objective lens. A 52-54mm lens only collects so much light.

 

[CaptainMal]

Friend shoots with a Kahles. I have been behind it, find the parallax adjustment difficult to use, the eye box hard to get positioned and it to be rather dull. Having said that the mechanics are superb with literally no issues. Now yesterday I used a rifle with one of my Vortex Golden Eagles on it. I rate it the SAME as the Kahles in optical quality. It has the same fussy eye box, a bit darker like the Kahles but with superb mechanics. To me they are near identical and I like the GE's parallax adjustment and price way better than the Kahles.

Neither are close to my Nightforce Comp. Not even remotely close in optical quality. They are maybe not even Nightforce BR quality with optics, which has a way more forgiving eye box. Yet, if I took off my sunglasses yesterday, I could make out the 6mm holes in the center of my 600 yard IBS target with the GE. Did not look through the Kahles yesterday.

 

[Hohn]

Your second to last sentence is worth highlighting. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

A fussy eye box seems inevitable to me on this kind of optic.

A club member broke his NF and got a “sorry about your bad luck” from NF. The quoted repair cost was higher than buying a new GE.

 

[dcali]

When you're at 50+ magnification and a 50ish mm objective, the eyebox is going to be an issue. That said, the Kahles hands down beats the Nightforce in that department. The Kahles can go to a higher magnification with the same exit pupil as the Nightforce because of its bigger objective. Granted the Nightforce goes up to 55x, but I rarely go past 45X with it, in large part because it's so unforgiving to look through at high magnification. I find 50x usable with the Kahles, but I wouldn't want it to go any higher.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Running any brand of scope up to the maximum magnification will be a disadvantage if you fire on the wrong target. Ask me how I know this. A side-by-side comparison is usually a good approach if possible, because you can assess both scopes back and forth with your own eyes. There is also something to be said for the notion that once you get above a certain acceptable threshold, any observable differences after that are more likely to be personal preference and not necessarily essential. Although different shooters may have a preference between a Nightforce Comp and the Kahles, I doubt many of them will tell you one or the other is completely "unacceptable".

 

[dthomas]

I already have the vortex. Just was wondering if it would have been a big upgrade going with the kahles. I think l will wait until I can look through one but probably won't make much difference in my scores in f class. I am happy with the golden eagle would just like a little better glass.

 

[JPS338LM]

Very happy with mine and have 3 now on F class rifles
At 40x they do have a slight foggy colour but does not bother me.

As mentioned above - turrets are way better than NF competitions.
Reticle is also for me better than the NF FCR-1 reticle that I had on the NF's.
Dont think there is a scope that hold true like the Kahles, a bunch of NF competitions we know of this could not be said.

NF Competition probably a bit more clarity in glass over 40x magnification. Over here you get to shoot over 40x in the first relay early morning only. Thereafter there is just too much mirage 90% of the time.

In the wind conditions we shoot in, the 10 x per direction on the windage turret is great as well.

Shot NF Competitions for long, since the very first pre 2013 edition, then the new version for some time next to a Kahles. In the end (after around 6 months of competitions shooting them on altrnate rifles) I standarised to the Kahles. Reticle worked better for me and the turrets were much better and scopes hold true.

Nothing wrong with the NF Competitions as far as I am concerned (mine did not have a shift issue), the Kahles just tick more boxes for me.

 

[dcali]

I already have the vortex. Just was wondering if it would have been a big upgrade going with the kahles. I think l will wait until I can look through one but probably won't make much difference in my scores in f class. I am happy with the golden eagle would just like a little better glass.

If mine is any indication, you don't buy a Kahles for glass quality. The mechanics are impressive, and I like the reticle better than anything else available. The glass, to my eyes, is worse than the Nightforce, which is cheaper. I cannot imagine a better image than the Nightforce produces. A look at a Nightforce benchrest would also be worth while - I have an old one of those that is very nice in the glass department, and I believe they're even cheaper than the golden eagle.

Personally, glass quality is way, way down on my list of useful features. I had no issues with a $400 Sightron 36x - it looked perfectly fine to me. Reliable mechanics, a good reticle (very personal, admittedly), and good, usable turrets are far more important to me. It's a sight - we're not bird watching. The Kahles has a good reputation on those areas, and I hope to confirm that reputation with mine soon. I will definitely report back if it falls short.

 

[BenPerfected]

Your second to last sentence is worth highlighting. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

A fussy eye box seems inevitable to me on this kind of optic.

A club member broke his NF and got a “sorry about your bad luck” from NF. The quoted repair cost was higher than buying a new GE.

What is the whole story? Was the NF scope dropped & damaged?

 

[Dub]

I have 2 NF competitions so far. They are fantastic for me. Never tried a Kahles

 

[JEFFPPC]

Before you buy any of the upper price scopes mentioned above I suggest you try the Sightron 10 x 50 SV 2700 with the ED glass and dual side focus knobs. Pricey but bright and crystal clear sharp image. For the price, Vortex GE is a fine scope.

 

[Hohn]

What is the whole story? Was the NF scope dropped & damaged?

I don't have the details, I presume it was a drop or some kind of "abuse." Sorry, it was an offhand comment made at a club work day several months ago and I shouldn't have mentioned it because I can't speak authoritatively to it.

But he did make a point to me very clear: there are things besides the features and such of a scope that should matter to you as a competitor, and the Vortex coverage is something to factor in.


I personally have never been a "warranty" kind of guy. I often thought of long warranties is marketing shtick. Like when the Hyundai and Kia cars first came to the US with a"10 year warranty." And of course, a warranty is only as good as the company behind it--and ultimately, the lawyer you can hire to MAKE them stand behind it.

So I'm not the kind to put much stock in a warranty, as I always believed the best warranties are the ones you never have to use because you bought a quality product to begin with.

But Vortex seems intent on making their brand known for no-hassle repair or replacement, so I'd not discount their warranty like I would others.

 

[Hohn]

Before you buy any of the upper price scopes mentioned above I suggest you try the Sightron 10 x 50 SV 2700 with the ED glass and dual side focus knobs. Pricey but bright and crystal clear sharp image. For the price, Vortex GE is a fine scope.

Ilya says the Sightron is excellent indeed:

 

[dcali]

I almost bought a Sightron 10-50x60, but the weight... they're pigs. The idea of a 60mm objective on a 34mm tube is appealing, though. Yeah, I get it. One causes the other...

 

[69mach]

I was lucky enough to be able to compare a nf comp, nf 42br, Khales 10-50, March highmaster 40-60, a sightron10-50 S3, and a golden eagle. My friend had the golden eagle and the S3. To my eyes the nf comp had the best glass on high mag. Granted it’s less mag than the march. The March highmaster didn’t overly impress me. The khales and Nightforce’s I still own. I still have the khales bc it’s built like a tank and I have peice of mind that I’m 99.99% sure when I dial in my dope the optic done what it was supposed to. The most reticle is nice and really my only complaint is it’s heavy and for the money it really should come with threaded lense covers like the br and comp nf scopes. I wasn’t impressed with the leather March covers either. The khales could use 34 or 35mm tubes as well but it works good as it is. For the money ($900-$1000 used) the nf 42 br is really hard to beat even though it looks dated and isn’t tacticool lol.

 

[bluto77]

I've always been a huge Kahles fan, but I'm leaning more towards the Vortex GE.

 

[Nature Boy]

the nf 42 br is really hard to beat even though it looks dated and isn’t tacticool lol.

I’ve always thought the NF BR 42 was underrated and under appreciated. You probably hit the nail on the head as to why

 

[avidflyer]

Before you buy any of the upper price scopes mentioned above I suggest you try the Sightron 10 x 50 SV 2700 with the ED glass and dual side focus knobs. Pricey but bright and crystal clear sharp image. For the price, Vortex GE is a fine scope.

and weights about 10 lbs....great scope but most cant make weight with it.