Jan 2023 NRA Highpower RuleBook

[Lbart]

FWIW I was involved in the drafting of the F-Class portion of the NRA HP rule book back in the very early 2000’s. Much of the rules were based on the Canadian F-Class rules and hence the ICFRA rules. Any rule changes nowadays should comply with ICFRA rules. A number of items have never been clarified in either set of rules. But I can tell you what the intent was.

If a rule states -“The F/O rifle may be supported by a “front rest or bag”. This was meant to be “a front rest” of some kind such as a tripod or bipod which many used then. The “or bag” meant just a big sandbag or a sandbag as part of a tripod rest. The “rifle fore-end will not exceed 76mm x 76mm” was understood to mean the bottom of the fore-end, not including the sides. Keep in mind BR also played a bit in the FO game and might explain the “sand”. My 1st FO rifle was a 6BR bench rifle.

“The contents of front and rear bags will be a dry, finely (< 5 mm) divided substance such as, but not limited to sand, gravel, or grain, packed loosely enough so that the bag must be visibly deformable on sides and top by the pressure of the range officer’s fingers.” This was understood by everyone.

People, we have to use common sense once in a while. Our rules should comply with the ICFRA F-Class rules. Do both the NRA’s and ICFRA rule books require updating…YES! Should it legalize “rollers or wheels”…NO!

 

[tvaught]

Thank you LarryB for contributing to this thread. Excellent information regarding history and intent.

 

[Warren Dean]

FWIW I was involved in the drafting of the F-Class portion of the NRA HP rule book back in the very early 2000’s. Much of the rules were based on the Canadian F-Class rules and hence the ICFRA rules. Any rule changes nowadays should comply with ICFRA rules. A number of items have never been clarified in either set of rules. But I can tell you what the intent was.

If a rule states -“The F/O rifle may be supported by a “front rest or bag”. This was meant to be “a front rest” of some kind such as a tripod or bipod which many used then. The “or bag” meant just a big sandbag or a sandbag as part of a tripod rest. The “rifle fore-end will not exceed 76mm x 76mm” was understood to mean the bottom of the fore-end, not including the sides. Keep in mind BR also played a bit in the FO game and might explain the “sand”. My 1st FO rifle was a 6BR bench rifle.

“The contents of front and rear bags will be a dry, finely (< 5 mm) divided substance such as, but not limited to sand, gravel, or grain, packed loosely enough so that the bag must be visibly deformable on sides and top by the pressure of the range officer’s fingers.” This was understood by everyone.

People, we have to use common sense once in a while. Our rules should comply with the ICFRA F-Class rules. Do both the NRA’s and ICFRA rule books require updating…YES! Should it legalize “rollers or wheels”…NO!

Well stated, Larry. ICFRA should be the standard that NRA uses for rules implementation and interpretation.

 

[big john 5394]

Why was it legal two years ago and i bought one not legal now has nra gone woke.

 

[Earl338]

NO The NRA is not wrong people are just contiunely trying to get a jump on the next competitor with some mechanical advantage and if that is allowed to continue soon shooting with a machine rest that leaves no traditional shooting skills involved which is not the direction that we should want to go. If building a shooting machine is the goal than I guess that is the way to go. If we want to have a shooting contest that requires at some shooting skills lets put some restrictions' on the equipment. Lets decide who is the best shooter out there nut the best machine builder that should be another contest. .Just my 2cents worth

 

[rardoin]

snip.......If we want to have a shooting contest that requires at some shooting skills lets put some restrictions' on the equipment. Lets decide who is the best shooter out there nut the best machine builder that should be another contest. .Just my 2cents worth

If you think that rests are the deciding factor on who is winning F-open competitions you need to get out and shoot more well attended regional/national events. The best shooters (ones that know how to develop a load and tune their rifles as well as judge wind conditions) are winning...period. I'm not advocating more advanced methods of positioning rifles; I think the increasing expenses keep some shooters on the sidelines. But, in no way do I feel that those at the top of the scoresheet at the end of the day/weekend/week are there because they have superior rests.

 

[Jdne5b]

We should just make a new sport and shoot with slings. Who needs rests anyways.

 

[rardoin]

Now that's a novel idea!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

If you think that rests are the deciding factor on who is winning F-open competitions you need to get out and shoot more well attended regional/national events. The best shooters (ones that know how to develop a load and tune their rifles as well as judge wind conditions) are winning...period. I'm not advocating more advanced methods of positioning rifles; I think the increasing expenses keep some shooters on the sidelines. But, in no way do I feel that those at the top of the scoresheet at the end of the day/weekend/week are there because they have superior rests.

Well said and it applies to ALL disciplines

 

[rardoin]

Well said and it applies to ALL disciplines

I did not say BR...we all know that with the right rest and bags one can shoot teeny tiny groups and win. Of course one must have the correct tuner...

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I did not say BR...we all know that with the right rest and bags one can shoot teeny tiny groups and win. Of course one must have the correct tuner...

Of course. That's a given!

In all honesty, I have probably shot my best in BR from a Shadtree top on a chicom base, vs farleys, sebs and now a Raptor with multiple tops. Can't tell much difference in any of them other than how much work I put in with ALL OF THEM. Hmmm.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Of course. That's a given!

In all honesty, I have probably shot my best in BR from a Shadtree top on a chicom base, vs farleys, sebs and now a Raptor with multiple tops. Can't tell much difference in any of them other than how much work I put in with ALL OF THEM. Hmmm.

I can't even remember for sure what I won a Nats on. I think it was a shared SEB. Does that tell anyone anything about why I have my position on this? Emphasis on "I can't even remember!" I do know it was from my SEB Bigfoot rear bag with offset ears. I love that thang!

 

[Doug Beach]

If rests don’t matter, don’t use rests. Much more satisfying to actually hold the dang thing yourself.

 

[davidjoe]

We should just make a new sport and shoot with slings. Who needs rests anyways.

I think the rest matters but I believe that even the sand packed variety would make true high power guys look at us askance if they ever tried this.

I’m driving back from the range right now deciding my secret plan to shoot service rifle at the state championship, in April, probably alone, and get my name on the Tubb Trophy will proceed more deliberately than in two months from now .

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

If rests don’t matter, don’t use rests. Much more satisfying to actually hold the dang thing yourself.

That just might be a stretch. Yes, any rest is generally better than none. I think you might know that, though.

 

[Doug Beach]

That just might be a stretch. Yes, any rest is generally better than none. I think you might know that, though.

Oh, I know.
I just want a few more people to forgo the rests, sling up with irons, and experience the zen beauty of pounding that distant x-ring, with only their bones and a bit of leather to thank. They just might like it.

 

[davidjoe]

Oh, I know.
I just want a few more people to forgo the rests, sling up with irons, and experience the zen beauty of pounding that distant x-ring, with only their bones and a bit of leather to thank. They just might like it.

Much respect. You guys do it the hard way, with a smile. I don’t own a jacket or glove yet but imagined that to make the experience even harder. I’ll gear up and be finding you guys now and then.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Oh, I know.
I just want a few more people to forgo the rests, sling up with irons, and experience the zen beauty of pounding that distant x-ring, with only their bones and a bit of leather to thank. They just might like it.

I respect that, for sure. I use to be able to do it fairly well but not any more. But I can certainly relate and I agree, much because it will "youth the crowd" to a degree. No doubt in my mind, I was better at that when I was younger.

 

[karrarararararar]

Oh, I know.
I just want a few more people to forgo the rests, sling up with irons, and experience the zen beauty of pounding that distant x-ring, with only their bones and a bit of leather to thank. They just might like it.

Make sure it's chambered in 223/308 too

 

[seb]

Here a new F-open rule.
(9) F-Open Front Rest Bags - The fore-end of the rifle must rest upon and/or be guided by the front bag(s) described elsewhere in this section. The rifle may not be supported or guided during recoil by rollers, wheels, or any other mechanical device.

This my opinion in "F-Class Competition Shooting" an FB group:
I re-post it here as many mention about seb rest, also my strong believe on the last sentence in bold.

Strange rules regarding front rest / top / bag, to my eyes.
I do not against any rules, as long it is fair and all use the same circumtances/standard.
As a rest maker, I make rest not for myself - but for other people, so that's why I always or still ask many things when designing a new rest. I respect my customer and their inputs. Sure I still need to learn a lot. I learn by asking a lot because in Indonesia I do not have /can't find any good front rest (etc). I am happy that I am blessed with some talents, each of my rest is different and usually copied by others.
Roller top idea (with delrin sides, and bottom bag) is not new. I already made some hand sketches (with one roller on each side) and asked about it in Benchrest.com long time ago before I created the NEO, probably around last 2004-2006? Reason: because roller delrin would be easier to make rather than sand bags, also it could be a new thing or "cool" to me, in that time frame. However the general concensus was "no", perhaps because it's a benchrest community with "sand filled bag" in mind. Since then I did not make roller "bag", but the one pc bag on my old seb rest, and then 3 pc bag on the NEO.
Personally I do believe that sand filled bag that is thick enough is generally better either in centerfire BR or F-Open (not sure in Rimfire / air rifle?) especially in absorbing the recoil / vibration induced by the rifle during firing.
About the same thing with wooden stock like Cerus, it absorbs rifle's vibration better and much quicker from my observasion. I won a Queens Open in Australia last year using the standard L shape bag, too.
I make the hard sides bag because some ask for it. My thought why not? If a delrin roller is legal then delrin side should be legal, too.
I add teflon sheet to be slick and it's more soft than delrin. If you have some dents on a roller you know it wouldn't be good. You would understand if you are familiar with a lathe and dial. Teflon sheet provides consistent slick even it has dents so it would last for decades. But does it work? Maybe, I don't know for sure. What I know is, great shooters like Erik, Norm, Tod, Tim, John, and on, can shoot anything AND WIN, especially with thing that they are comfortable and confident with.