I've never had the greatest luck with .223 reloadinhg

[msinc]

White Oak Armament barrels are made by Wilson. I have had good luck with Wilson barrels on my guns. I have had trouble getting the 223 to shoot accurately and have put a lot of effort into trying to get a good load.
My favorites are 69 grain SMK with 26.0 grains of W748, 64 grain Berger with 25.5 grains of N140 and for lighter bullets and slower twist the 50 grain Ballistic Tip with 24.0 grains of IMR4198 worked pretty good.
All that said, your chrono results look as if maybe you might want to try annealing the case necks. Usually, too much neck tension will give those erratic figures. I will say this though, do not be surprised to find the SD/ES number to come way down and look fantastic only to see worse or no better accuracy at the target. Good chrono numbers don't necessarily automatically equate to good accuracy.
30 years ago I never had trouble getting my 223's to shoot...today I have concluded it's the bullets.

 

[MGYSGT]

I shoot Varget and 69 gr thru 80 gr with CCI 450's. I have settled on 24 gr. Varget and 69's at 2.275 in the AR. My barrel is on it's second chamber and my son shot a 198/196/195 with it this Sunday at 300 Prone F Class. It was a little windy and warm. Perhaps not as good as my bolt gun with 80 Amax, but good enough. He lives in Taxifornia, so he only shoots here in Arizona when visiting perhaps 3 times a year.

 

[searcher]

I think most people who have done a lot of load development in A/R's specifically - know to change powders if they are not getting pretty good accuracy with a bullet at various charge settings. A/R's tend to show what they like and don't like much more spectacularly than bolt guns. I'd try a few of the powders others have mentioned. I'd start with Varget and VV or- if you have a ton of 8208, maybe try the Berger 75.

 

[ebb]

73 grain Berger and H4895 when you get a flat primer you have gone too far, back up some when the groups look good stop.

 

[retired]

making recommendations when the op has not DEFINED his intend, is pretty much a waste of space.

i said once before, define your accuracy requirements

 

[#40Fan]

He said he was happy with the .7 group, just worried about the chronograph results.

OP - Drop the bolt on a few rounds and check OAL. You might need to consider slight crimps or tighter necks prior to seating the bullet.

 

[retired]

you do not need 75's to shoot at 100.
so a little more info would help.

He said he was happy with the .7 group, just worried about the chronograph results.

OP - Drop the bolt on a few rounds and check OAL. You might need to consider slight crimps or tighter necks prior to seating the bullet.

 

[#40Fan]

you do not need 75's to shoot at 100.
so a little more info would help.

Why are you quoting me?

Nothing wrong with shooting 75's at a 100, though. Maybe that is all he has access to right now. A .7" group at a 100 won't become a .4" group at 300.

 

[hikfromstik]

You need to crimp your necks . I done the same thing and couldn't figure out why I was getting high ES's . Your bullets are getting set back while cycling . Alliant 2000mr is good too .

 

[johnfred1965]

I've shot a lot of ar's with a lot of different powders, and I have to say, I don't find them at all picky about which powder it is. You will get somewhat better accuracy changing powders, but 1 MOA frm a WOA barrel, it isn't just the powder. I do like w748 just because it flows through my Dillion very accurately, and Varget, just because everybody likes Varget. With an autoloader, I like a lot of neck tension, so cycling rounds like #40 said and checking for setback would be a good idea. I had one rifle, the barrel extension must have been made on Friday afternoon, it was so rough it gouged the bullet and set it back on every round. I could cut my groups by more than half by single loading, but who wants to do that.? I would also run some Gold medal over your chrono to see if that could be a problem.

 

[johnfred1965]

You need to crimp your necks . I done the same thing and couldn't figure out why I was getting high ES's . Your bullets are getting set back while cycling . Alliant 2000mr is good too .

What you said. I was just more longwinded!

 

[retired]

i agree there are time when crimping can help with proper ignition/better groups.
but in 19 years of building competitive ar's, i have NEVER crimped competition ammo. the ammo loaded for me, to sell at retail, was always crimped, just range fodder 55's and 62's.

You need to crimp your necks . I done the same thing and couldn't figure out why I was getting high ES's . Your bullets are getting set back while cycling . Alliant 2000mr is good too .

 

[ms6852]

My RRA loves Hornady’s 75gr BTHP with 23.5 gr of Reloader 15. I avg .640 5 shot groups at 100. Granted I am not taking my time when I shoot but could possibly get 1/2 moa if I shoot for a one hole. My barrel is a 20” barrel with a 1/8 twist.

 

[LVLAaron]

FWIW - I don't think your ES issue is the 8208, that's a fine powder for heavy bullets in the .223.

I've seen similar erratic ES patterns when using a mandrel for the final neck sizing step. One guess might be that your neck tension isn't consistent. Do you feel a difference in resistance for some rounds when seating bullets? Try using an appropriate sized bushing/die, or some other neck sizing method and see if you can get more consistent neck tension and/or whether the ES improves. When using a mandrel to size the necks, it's critical that you first size them down at or below the intended diameter, then use the mandrel to open them back up. It seems like a great idea, but in my hands the neck tension was never as consistent as with a bushing die and the result was erratic ES values. Usually one shot would be way out, the others not too bad, which is what your numbers seem to indicate. I also surmise that when using a mandrel to open the necks up as the last step, springback will make them tighten up about half a thousandth, as opposed to sizing them down with a bushing, where the springback will open them up just a tick. I personally just found it more difficult to get consistent neck tension when using the mandrel as the final step.

In my hands with heavies (80-90 gr) in the .223, typical ES values for 5-shots will range from 12 to 15 fps, up to the low 20s. I don't normally get ES values quite as low as with .308 loads, likely because the case is approximately half the size and therefore variance has almost twice the effect. ES values in the 30-40 fps range (or higher) may not be noticeable at 100 yd, but they won't help you much at longer ranges.

For shooting groups during load development with your AR, I would also suggest a higher power scope if you have one, 10X is a little on the low side. Also, turning off the gas system (if it's possible) and single feeding will help with potential precision issues due to bolt carrier group cycling/movement during load development. I understand you won't be shooting it that way during a match, but the less potential for movement you have while shooting groups during load development, the better your confidence in the results will be.

The mandrel is sized .002 under bullet dimension. (.222 in this case) and gives VERY consistent neck tension vs an expander ball. When I reload bigger calipers I will use a bushing/collet die that gets the neck barely under sized, and finish them off in a carbide mandrel. In my mind, I want the inside of the neck to be round, not the outside to make up for any imperfections in the brass.

I single feed when I'm shoot this gun. Gas is not adjustable.

 

[msinc]

The mandrel is sized .002 under bullet dimension. (.222 in this case) and gives VERY consistent neck tension vs an expander ball. When I reload bigger calipers I will use a bushing/collet die that gets the neck barely under sized, and finish them off in a carbide mandrel. In my mind, I want the inside of the neck to be round, not the outside to make up for any imperfections in the brass.

I single feed when I'm shoot this gun. Gas is not adjustable.

Are you also annealing the necks??? Because if you are not there is nothing mechanical that can give consistent neck tension if the necks are hard or need annealing. Maybe I missed it somewhere and if so then please accept my apologies, but it appears I am the only one that has mentioned this. Sometimes cases can seem like they don't need it, or are maybe even brand new or just have a few loading's on them...the only way to know is to do it and see.

 

[LVLAaron]

Are you also annealing the necks??? Because if you are not there is nothing mechanical that can give consistent neck tension if the necks are hard or need annealing. Maybe I missed it somewhere and if so then please accept my apologies, but it appears I am the only one that has mentioned this. Sometimes cases can seem like they don't need it, or are maybe even brand new or just have a few loading's on them...the only way to know is to do it and see.

Yes. I have the AMP Annealer. Anneal after every firing.

 

[jepp2]

Trued/lapped the upper to the barrel and bedded the barrel with loctite retaining compound. Saw considerable improvements. So I took a stab at reloading for it again.

So I'm curious how much improvement you saw from this change. I always lap the face of the receiver for uniform contact, and try to keep my barrel nut torque in the lower part of the range. But I haven't used Loctite on mine. Which retaining compound did you use.

 

[LVLAaron]

So I'm curious how much improvement you saw from this change. I always lap the face of the receiver for uniform contact, and try to keep my barrel nut torque in the lower part of the range. But I haven't used Loctite on mine. Which retaining compound did you use.

I dont have an executive summary, but I can say it was noticeable. I've done this in a couple of guns. I'll shoot them without lapping or bedding to get a baseline, tear it down and then lap/bed. It's definitely worth the effort. Loctite 620 is the high temp cylindrical retaining compound that you want.

 

[retired]

LEAVE EVERYTHING THE SAME AND TRY A DIFFERENT PRIMER
MAYBE A WSR

 

[LVLAaron]

you do not need 75's to shoot at 100.
so a little more info would help.

That's where I'm doing my load dev. The range goes to 500. This gun is just for fun, not competition.