ITAR Registration -- Plan on Paying your Gunsmith more...

[boltman223]

Today to get started in business as a Gunsmith/Manufacture excluding tools, machinery, telephone, computer, advertising, hard bound books/ledgers, gun safe, and building, it cost more than $8,000.00 in fees, license, permits, taxes, insurance, accountant and lawyer fees, electricity, water, sewer, and solid waste just to open your doors.

These cost have to be passed on to your customers don't forget the BATF says you have to be making a profit to keep your license.
Nat Lambeth

Are you talking about having a 01 FFL for gunsmithing cost $8000 in fees or a 07 manufacturers? Because it sounds like you're saying both. With my understanding there is a big difference in fees to obtain a 01 vs a 07. And the rest is up to the individual and would have a varying cost.

 

[LHSmith]

TSA=JRS?

Deja Vu? There can't possibly be two individuals on this forum who think like that. Thread count matters.

 

[LHSmith]

This all reminds me of that catchy phrase that put all allegations to rest- What difference does it make? Till the queen is done with her ruling only the rich will be able to afford custom gun work anyways.
Besides, she has to issue the executive order first before we can find out what's in it.

 

[shortgrass]

No they don't..........not until you export it, that is.

You have a reading comprehension problem, so I'll help you out one last time. I quote Section 122.1 Registration Requirements (a) "Any person who engages in the United States in the business of manufacturing OR (not AND) exporting or temporary importation of defense articals, or furnishing defense services, is required to register with the DDTC under section 122.2. For the purpose of this sub chapter, engaging in such a business requires only one occasion of manufacturing OR ( not AND) exporting or temporarily importing a defense artical or furnishing a defense service. A MANUFACTUER WHO DOES NOT ENGAGE IN EXPORTING MUST NEVERTHELESS REGISTER." Thats it,,, last time,,, you are now on IGNORE!

 

[swd]

Are you talking about having a 01 FFL for gunsmithing cost $8000 in fees or a 07 manufacturers? Because it sounds like you're saying both. With my understanding there is a big difference in fees to obtain a 01 vs a 07. And the rest is up to the individual and would have a varying cost.

You have to be an 07 to register with the DDTC so we'll be stuck with it.

 

[swd]

You have a reading comprehension problem, so I'll help you out one last time. I quote Section 122.1 Registration Requirements (a) "Any person who engages in the United States in the business of manufacturing OR (not AND) exporting or temporary importation of defense articals, or furnishing defense services, is required to register with the DDTC under section 122.2. For the purpose of this sub chapter, engaging in such a business requires only one occasion of manufacturing OR ( not AND) exporting or temporarily importing a defense artical or furnishing a defense service. A MANUFACTUER WHO DOES NOT ENGAGE IN EXPORTING MUST NEVERTHELESS REGISTER." Thats it,,, last time,,, you are now on IGNORE!

And why the hell would anyone think it's just fine to hit us up any of this for sporting gun work? Do you love freedom or not, never mind it's obvious...

 

[LHSmith]

Remember you can now use the legal argument of "intent" to avoid prosecution. The onus is on the government to prove that you, the gunsmith, "intended" not to register for this new ruling and simply being "extremely careless" should not rise to the level of a prosecutable offense. Citation: James Comey decision on H.R. Clinton's private e-mail 7/5/2016. If that don't work, try parsing the ambiguous wording in the ruling...ala "it depends on what the meaning of "is" is. God help us.

 

[Lightload]

Sounds like the camel's nose under the tent to me. You may not have to pay the fee but you still need to register......even folks who reload. Register first, get a list of participants and then go back and confiscate later. This has to be stopped!

 

[Boyd L.]

jrs - you miss the point and continue to do so. this is a blatant action to burden small bnusiness with more taxes. 2 or 200 barrel jobs is not the issue. and not all of us are happy to pay 5$ more just because of a definition change .

I could only read the first two pages of this thread before needing to jump in. If this is discussed in succeeding pages..... well you'll get over it.
I think that Matthias is partially correct. But instead of a blatant act to tax gunsmith, I believe this is an Obama end run (using the Executive Order) to install a portion of the liberal agenda supporting gun control by hiding behind the "regulation-taxation" smoke screen. The idea is to make another component or aspect of gun owner habits and practices difficult to maintain and eventually with enough "kingly edicts", the liberal agenda is fulfilled and the last part of individual freedoms won't be a threat to those in power. The concept of an armed populace frightens an element of the intelligentsia who "know better". This is just an Obama legacy action.

 

[swd]

AND, a 07 is the license required to "Manufacture NFA Weapons".

Do ANY manufacturing not just NFA.

 

[potatoe]

Do ANY manufacturing not just NFA.

I'd be willing to bet that TWA is also JRS. Whenever JRS starts his liberal crap there is suddenly an "new" guy backing him up on the same thread. Treat them like mushrooms - feed em' sh!# and darkness. Also void any classified ads with them and don't eat their bait then they will go away. That's the way I treat him/them/whatever they are.

 

[swd]

I could only read the first two pages of this thread before needing to jump in. If this is discussed in succeeding pages..... well you'll get over it.
I think that Matthias is partially correct. But instead of a blatant act to tax gunsmith, I believe this is an Obama end run (using the Executive Order) to install a portion of the liberal agenda supporting gun control by hiding behind the "regulation-taxation" smoke screen. The idea is to make another component or aspect of gun owner habits and practices difficult to maintain and eventually with enough "kingly edicts", the liberal agenda is fulfilled and the last part of individual freedoms won't be a threat to those in power. The concept of an armed populace frightens an element of the intelligentsia who "know better". This is just an Obama legacy action.

I'd be willing to bet that TWA is also JRS. Whenever JRS starts his liberal crap there is suddenly an "new" guy backing him up on the same thread. Treat them like mushrooms - feed em' sh!# and darkness. Also void any classified ads with them and don't eat their bait then they will go away. That's the way I treat him/them/whatever they are.

For the first time here in 8 years I put someone on ignore. WOW, awesome, all TWA's posts disappeared life is better without trolls.

 

[dedogs]

I'd be willing to bet that TWA is also JRS.

If that's true he was really thinking ahead. He (TRA) registered in FEB 2005. dedogs

 

[TRA]

Do ANY manufacturing not just NFA.

That's right. My statement regarding NFA weapons was not totally accurate. It's type 10 when you get in the big leagues.

This is straight from the ATF,

Federal Firearms License (FFL) Types
Type Description
01 Dealer in Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices (Includes Gunsmiths)
02 Pawnbroker in Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices
03 Collector of Curios and Relics
06 Manufacturer of Ammunition for Firearms
07 Manufacturer of Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices
08 Importer of Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices
09 Dealer in Destructive Devices
10 Manufacturer of Destructive Devices
11 Importer of Destructive Devices

 

[1shot]

After following this thread daily since its start, something from my CCW classes struck me. If you notice the word "defense" is used several times by this edict. I.e. DOD, defense contractors, etc.
I point this out because no where in this item do you see the opposite of the word defense which is "offense".
We all have weapons capable of being used to defend our lives, or others, regardless of the primary purpose.
If we had/worked on/ manufactured "offensive" weapons, we would be classified as murders or terrorists.
The point being that this article is so vague that it can be construed to mean whatever B/H wants.

Lloyd

 

[R.Morehouse]

That was one heck of a Sun. morning read...........Good Morning America...

 

[Heman]

The key to this is the interpretation of ITAR-controlled firearms. As it states (Paraphrasing) the stuff below doesn't apply unless it involves ITAR-controlled firearms. I was looking around where is this defined, or has it already been mentioned in this post?

 

[ED3]

could the regulation be interpreted to include persons who complete an 80% receiver also? Or would it only apply to someone who was actively in the gunsmithing trade? Jim

After my first read through, it is my belief that it would apply to finishing an 80% receiver.

 

[shortgrass]

The key to this is the interpretation of ITAR-controlled firearms. As it states (Paraphrasing) the stuff below doesn't apply unless it involves ITAR-controlled firearms. I was looking around where is this defined, or has it already been mentioned in this post?

Search for U.S. Munitions List using your favorite search engine. It is very easy to find. I can find no "list" by make and model of 'sporting' or "Defense Articals". Any 'definition' I find is very broad sweeping, up to discretion of bureacrats. The Winchester Model 70 was used as a 'sniper' rifle, so is the Remington M40/M40A1. What about the S&W "Victory" Model and the Colt 1911/1911A1? Are they significant "Defense Articals"? Are firearms that might use the same receiver/frame significant "Defense Articals"? Have some of the newly manufactured 'custom' actions been used to make 'sniper' rifles (like Surgeon Rifles),,, are those now significant "Defense Articals"? If you do go to the U.S.Muntions List, be sure to scroll down the page, past Catagory 1 after you've read it, for even more.

 

[Shynloco]

not anymore

With all due respect, I cannot agree with that!. After that initial posting of this topic and my initial response after reading the applicable section(s), yesterday I talked to a couple of experienced Gunsmiths who've been in the business for a very long time (25 yrs+), one of whom still competes. They've also read the initial Post that got this topic going. They agree with me, in part, but also said what was missed in the initial article was stating of the different categories of Licensed Gunsmiths who are licensed to do Gunsmithing work and who've paid the long standing fees ($2200) to obtain that FFL license and do Gunsmithing work. I have to rely on them and I know very little about the specifics of this stuff other than what is written down in plain English and my interpretation of legalezz which goes back more than 40 yrs. So say what you want to believe and I guess we'll see what happens in the long run.

Alex