rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
Isn’t a 6BR essentially a “mini” .243?
Is the .243 Win Obsolete ?
- Thread starter NDAR15MAN
- Start date
Isn’t a 6BR essentially a “mini” .243?
Adam in WI
Practically lives here
Recently, Browning made the thoughtful move to start using a 1-8" twist barrel on their 7mm Rem Mag rifles. I think if companies would give the 243 the same treatment it would give the old 6 a shot in the arm. We've all seen bullet boxes that say something like "recommended twist 1-8"or faster". A modern 243 with factory ammunition carrying the same advice could help prevent buyers from using heavy high b.c bullets in older rifles that will likely not shoot them well.
But then we can't sell a boatload of 6mm creedmoor rifles can we?
But then we can't sell a boatload of 6mm creedmoor rifles can we?
243 is like a half ton pickup.
Does 99% what anything else can do.
Does 99% what anything else can do.
You apparently failed to notice, or have forgotten, that an 8-twist long throat 243 option was one of the original three chamberings in the best-selling Ruger Precision Rifle (alongside 308 Win and 6.5mm Creedmoor). It was dropped after two or three years for the 6mm Creedmoor.
The anti-Creedmoor conspirators no doubt see this as another nefarious ploy to push the new model for grubby money-making reasons, but the simple fact is that the 243 Win variant simply didn't sell compared to the other two, and flop has been transformed to success by its replacement - like that fact or loathe it.
Irrespective of what we on this forum think (and know) about cartridges and their capabilities, the vast mass of shooters who actually keep gunshops and manufacturers in business simply don't rate the 243 as much of a precision and/or long-range cartridge, and you have to handload to treat it as such too. As a dual-purpose, small/medium deer and varmint number, quite different views and much loved.
Incidentally, we have a large and very active UK based 'deerhunting' forum called The Stalking Directory ('stalking' as an abbreviation of the British name for the activity, ie 'deerstalking'). If you want to get a sometimes bad-tempered three figure posts debate going on it, start one on just how adequate 243 is for British deer species. Despite the primary native species being the diminutive Roe, a good one being ~70lb undressed, lots of knowledgeable and experienced 'stalkers' here don't 'rate' 243 highly despite its good sales and many fans.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
John Whidden seems to think it is adequate. Pretty much dominated 1000 yard sling shooting for years with 243. Still doing quite well as far as I know and he never changed.
Adam in WI
Practically lives here
Didn't forget. One model from one maker doesn't count for much. If it had been a more widely taken approach that would've been another story.
Mark W
Gold $$ Contributor
I own one of those original Gen 1 RPRs that came chambered in .243 Win that @Laurie mentioned. All I can say is that the lack of sales had nothing to do with its performance. At over 1,000 rounds down the tube it’s still the most accurate factory rifle in my safe by a large margin. That one model was too little too late for that market. There’s no way that it was going to compete with the advertising dollars that had already been thrown at the Creedmoor.
Yes, I know that, and you know that, and we're in complete agreement here.
But the point I'm trying to make is that neither the facts nor views of people on this forum count for much on what we in the UK call 'the High Street' and you call 'Main Street'. Whilst we keep specialist operations like Whidden Gunworks in business and buy lots of long-range Bergers and other bullets, what the other 97% of shooters out there believe, and more to the point, what they'll spend their hard earned money on is often very different.
It didn't matter whether one, two or twenty-two rifle manufacturers adopted 8-twist 243 long-range models when off-the-shelf-Blackticool became the big must-have and gunshop money-spinner, it was a horse that wouldn't run in that market because Joe Average Shooter wouldn't pick it. Think of all those bad (and frankly now overworked) jokes on the lines of Joe is a long-range sniper. Joe bought a 6.5 Creedmoor yesterday. The Joes of this world just don't go around boasting to their friends they've bought the latest 243 target rifle, or sticking it up on Facebook.
It's not just 243. Savage and some others tried 260 Rem as an option in their long-range upmarket rifles and didn't win many sales. (And that was despite the availability of a good range of off the shelf 260 match rounds loaded with Norma, Berger and Sierra long-range match bullets from smaller 'boutique' ammunition companies.)
A little too late for that market? I'd say 15, at least 10 years too late! Remington with the 260 and Winchester with the 243 had windows of opportunity several years before the Creedmoors appeared. They ignored them, or more likely didn't even notice them because they've rested on their laurels and past employees' hard graft with their 20th century product ranges. The initiative has been seized by Hornady, Nosler and Federal in mass markets, Lapua and Norma in more specialist areas.
Ask yourself a simple question. Why did David Emary (Hornady's top development engineer) and Dennis DeMille (Creedmoor Sports) sit down at dinner after a day of national matches at Camp Perry, what 12, 13 years ago with an agenda to discuss what an ideal competition cartridge for the other than service calibres matches would have? It was because neither believed contemporary cartridge offerings met that need. That was the evening that the 243's and 260's opportunities for developing away from being purely mass-market deer cartridges (and ultimately their long-term rifle and cartridge sales) died.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
I really would have no problem with all the 243 rifles and ammo manufacturers switching over to SLR.
If there was an easy way to switch over my 243s I would. Just to get that longer neck.
And the 243 really is shaped the most odd of all the 308 derivatives.
If there was an easy way to switch over my 243s I would. Just to get that longer neck.
And the 243 really is shaped the most odd of all the 308 derivatives.
Lovely cartridge. Just got my second rebarreling back in it.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
It really is... someone needs to do native brass for it.
No!
Cartridge design is based on a combat round the 7.62x51/NATO. aThe more modern 6.5's are designed for target work so they are different but not so much "better".
If you limit your self to SAAMI load limits than you might think it is obsolete.
What really limite the 243 is mronic OEM's like Ruger that handicap the 243 with a twist rate that is 2 decade or more behind the times but they give the 6CM a proper and modern twist rate. It is that damn SAAMI holding us back. Same thing with the 25-06. Even if OEM's made heavier bullets for the 25-06 OEM's would hold us all back cranking out moronic rifles with twists too slow!
Cartridge design is based on a combat round the 7.62x51/NATO. aThe more modern 6.5's are designed for target work so they are different but not so much "better".
If you limit your self to SAAMI load limits than you might think it is obsolete.
What really limite the 243 is mronic OEM's like Ruger that handicap the 243 with a twist rate that is 2 decade or more behind the times but they give the 6CM a proper and modern twist rate. It is that damn SAAMI holding us back. Same thing with the 25-06. Even if OEM's made heavier bullets for the 25-06 OEM's would hold us all back cranking out moronic rifles with twists too slow!
Creampuff creedmoore will be obsolete before 243 Winchester!
Somewhat the same in Southeast Arizona. I lived and hunted Coues deer in the Chiricahua Mountains for over a decade and my "weapon of choice" was the .243....Ruger M77... In those days, it was rare to see another hunter in the rugged high country but when you did most carried some sort of 30 caliber "pumpkin roller". Most thought the .243 not enough gun but I never let it bother me...killed a lot of Coues deer with that little gem.
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