Is the .243 Win Obsolete ?

[Dusty Stevens]

Thank you long40shot. I don't think we have an equivalent in the UK, although 'porridge' (made out of coarse oatmeal) used mainly for breakfast these days and originating in Scotland must be at least as puzzling to a non-native, especially the insistence by any kilt wearing native that it should be liberally sprinkled with salt before consumption.

When i was in dundee last year i was more puzzled with haggis than anything. Theres not enough salt out there for me to eat that.

 

[Laurie]

When i was in dundee last year i was more puzzled with haggis than anything. Theres not enough salt out there for me to eat that.

I hate it - and had to eat a lot of it as a lad growing up 20 odd miles away from Dundee in Perth. To stomach it, I had to liberally dose it with malt vinegar. Lots of people love it though and you can even get small ones deep-fried in many Scottish fish & chip shops.

 

[LHSmith]

Now, im not a southerner, im from Kansas. So if i muck this up someone correct me. Grits are a corn product. They are a finely ground corn meal. Usually you cook them in a pot in the stove, then mix in other ingredients. Like bacon or what ever else you can think up. You might consider it a distant cousin of the Italian's polenta.

We of Pa. Dutch origin (not to be confused with Amish) call that "mush"....add sweet corn and it's corn fritters. Kum essa!

 

[msinc]

It has become apparent that the answer to the original question of this thread, whether or not the 243 Winchester is or will be "obsolete" any time soon is now completely answered in it's entirety. When a thread starts out with a pretty simplistic question and it "drifts" all the way to eating haggis..........I think the answer is not just no, but hell no...the 243 is safe!!!!!
All that said, I have as much ownership in the thread drift as any one and admittedly more than most. I have only known one honest to god Scot and he was a character indeed. He was also a worldly fellow and no matter the topic he always had the same basic answer when his experience was questioned....e.g.; "I was killing grizzlies with a 243 when you were at your mothers TEAT!!!!"

 

[Laurie]

.e.g.; "I was killing grizzlies with a 243 when you were at your mothers TEAT!!!!"

Yeah we have lots of grizzlies in Scotland , many of them nominally homo sapiens. (There used to be bears here although I doubt if it were that species, wild boar, and wolves too in the British Isles, the last survivors being in the Scottish Highlands. Perhaps your Scottish friend shot the last bear - although he'd have had to be a couple of hundred years old to claim that and doing it with the 243 DOB 1952 wouldn't stack up either. They've long been hunted out, but wild boar is back thanks to escapees from farmed populations, and like you we have idiots reintroducing wolves, but no bears proposed - yet!)

On the cartridge, I agree 100%. I only think it a shame that Winchester never made a Mark 2 modernised version with the SLR or CM form and a faster rifling twist. The 6mm Creedmoor has now taken that role and may slowly edge the 243 out over time as new shooters buy their first new rifle - but with the sheer number of 243s around and the breadth of choice in over the counter firearms and ammunition, it'll see its centenary out easily and will still be around long after I've 'popped my clogs' (as they say in my adopted region, Yorkshire in northern England).

 

[msinc]

Yeah we have lots of grizzlies in Scotland ..........

He migrated to the USA in 1969. Buddy, it was a "figure of speech", in a manner of speaking. Mine, not his. To the absolute best of my knowledge he has never killed any kind of a bear and I doubt he even owns a rifle at this point.
Just so you understand, if we were working on a roof for example and somebody suggested something he knew was wrong..."I was bangin on shingles when you are at your mothers teat!!!" it is way funnier with his heavy Scottish accent.
Same type of thing...I have a very good friend from New Jersey. Everyone remembers the line from the movie "Apocalypse Now" when one of the soldiers suggest it might be too dangerous to go surfing under enemy fire..."What do you know about surfing Major? You're from god damn new Jersey!!" When we were all together and carrying on what ever he said we would lay that line on him. Just swap out surfing for whatever the present topic was. It is all in jest, like about 75% of this thread. We do that a lot here in America.

 

[NDAR15MAN]

Guys I just don’t see it as a popular caliber to buy when all of us old timers die off in next 15 years. I love my 243 tikka for all the reason stated here on this thread. But making the 243 cal our go to gun now does not make the new shooters buy it right now. Will only know if US old timers live 12 more years.
Ha ha ha. Marty

 

[brokeasajoke]

I eat grits often. It' a staple here in the western NC mountains. Now to the main topic. Is it best to hit the deer in the shoulder with a .243 being sure to hit bone or behind the shoulder as I have never shot one with a 243? I normally go for the head on a doe but my children may not be as accurate (or is it precise) lol.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I've double lunged the ones I have killed, no losses. Probably half have dropped on the spot and other half went 20-40 yards.

 

[stacy]

NOT IN MY CAMP ALIVE AND STILL KILLING !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SteveOak]

While I agree with the thrust of your assessment and you did provide some excellent well considered categories, I think it skews the data to mix commercial and military cartridges. Granted, I'm not sure how one could assess commercial success that was not the result of either

(a) familiarity with the military cartridge,

(b) the result of the availability of inexpensive military surplus ammunition and components, or

(c) shooting disciplines that require the use of a military cartridge

from cartridges that were adopted because of their inherent qualities.

That's an interesting question. History suggests that success or otherwise of a newly introduced cartridge soon shows up and that heavily influences its long-term prospects. There are apparently five or six categories of response to a new mainstream market design:

the 'lemons' - never sell well; only the original manufacturer produces ammunition and brass and often drops them after a few years of poor sales; no other manufacturer adopts them; few makes and models of rifle are chambered for it and within 10 years, 20 at most, they are quietly are dropped by the 'owning' manufacturer. For example, TC models, 6.5mm and 350 Rem Magnum. Very rarely, a cartridge is revived despite long term indifference when a new or modified role appears - 284 Win in over-SAAMI length form as long-range hunting and match round as well as the basis of many wildcats and the factory 6.5-284 Norma. The 7-30 Waters, a failure in its intended role to revive Winchester's 94AE levergun fortunes, but picked up by niche users in single-shot pistols.

the 'never quite make its'. They do well enough to survive but cannot be described as great successes. The 260 Rem falls into this category - apparently now unloved and uncared for by its creator Remington and only a few alternative loadings from other mainstream ammunition companies. It had a big chance of revival some years ago when sniper competitors and others picked it up, but it has been left to boutique manufacturers such as ABM and Prime Ammo to produce match and tactical rounds. Many hunting-only numbers fall into this category even if they are excellent designs - the 358 Winchester, for example, maybe the WSSMs.

the 'flashes in the pan'. Lots of initial excitement and good sales but before other manufacturers adopt it, downsides become apparent and/or 'a better mousetrap' appears. The 264 Winchester Magnum is the classic example - a great success until word of its barrel-burning propensities got around, but more importantly Remington's 7mm Magnum being introduced a couple of years later destroyed its remaining prospects.

the 'almost instant successes' - 223 Rem, 308 Win, WSMs, some of the 1960s Winchester and Remington Magnums. Even when better alternatives appear, many will stick with them. Most firearms and ammunition / brass manufacturers adopt them within five years of launch. They usually have a long-lasting appeal. (I say 'instant success', but 308 Win took a rather long time to be adopted across the board especially in the USA such was the hold of the .30-06 on the market.) I cannot think of one such in the past that once adopted by nearly all manufacturers and US shooters which fades away after 10 or even 20 years. These numbers become 'standards' - people talk about 308 class cartridges; 30-06 class etc. They are usually multi-role - range and field use.

the 'niche players' - either specialist numbers kept going in custom and rebarreled rifles and through handloading. 6mm BR and variants; 6.5X47 Lapua and suchlike. .... or specialist hunting numbers such as some Weatherby Magnums, 458 Lott etc.

The 6.5 Creedmoor falls into the 'instant success' category whether people are happy about that or not; whether they think it deserves it or not. In fact, it apparently outperforms even 308 and 223 at the same points in their development timelines in terms of adoption by manufacturers, but that is due to increased disposable wealth and changes in the market over the last 50 years. The number of people now producing brass and rifles for it is staggering given it's less than 10 years old. On a historical basis such investment and involvement suggests a long future run. It already falls into the 'standard' category replacing the 260 Rem and 6.5X55mm as the 'standard 6.5', for many younger shooters the only cartridge they even know of in this calibre.

 

[Racebannon3855]

For the non-reloader and hunters especially the .243 Win will go on for a very long time. Here in NY when the SAFE Act was pushed through in the middle of the night 243 Ammo sold out as fast as 223 and 308. Hunters have the reasonable expectation that an affordable Savage, Ruger American, TC or your favorite brand will be close to MOA and the rifle will have minimal recoil (Easy to shoot little groups that way.). Pretty much any store that carries Ammo will have 243 and most of the 100 grain factory loadings will harvest deer cleanly. The 100 gr shoots flat enough that many hunters use the same load for Coyote and Chucks and by deer season they know where it hits. Most of the deer hunters that use a 243 never get the barrel hot and barrel life is not an issue. Our oldest boy killed his first deer with a 243 and an 85 gr Game King BTHP. We have a bunch of them and I currently have one for sale.

All of our kids are currently shooting 7MM-08 rifles. As long as Dad reloads it will be fine. Factory 7MM-08 Ammo is not as plentiful and it costs more. It is a better choice if you only hunt deer, from our experience the most affordable deer load is the 120 gr Fusion. It exits every time on lung shots and always expands. I also have one of these for sale on the forum.

Hornady has come out swinging with the Creedmoors, affordable ammo and a good selection. A high volume shooter buying a new rifle will have to look long and hard at them. Factory Twist Rates are right, heavy bullets run through the magazine and recoil is minimal. My well healed friends that buy new rifles every couple years and factory ammo have nothing but praise for their Creedmoors.

As a Hunter who just wants the flattest trajectory and best accuracy with minimal recoil I shoot a neck turned 6 Ackley (28" 1:8). Brass can be tricky to find and I should have built it on a long action! I never get the barrel hot and once I got a load that would run 115 Bergers into 1" @ 250 I stopped testing. Most of my shooting is random distance from a cold bore and it is a hammer. It has been a lot of work and at the end of the day I could probably do the same thing at lower velocity with a 243!

 

[300_whisper]

.243 isn’t going anywhere. I just got a .243. It’s the 1:9 twist Remington varmint rifle. I have a timney trigger and bedded in an HS precision. Trying to load it up with 100-105 grainer to get it to 1000. We will see how that goes.

Thanks, as well, about the southern comment. What would us southerners ever do without them awesome northern folk? I count my blessings every time they put me on the right path. Same goes for west coast folk too. Just so blessed to have them making policies and telling us how wrongs we’s be’s.

 

[dolek]

.243 is a fine round,I don't see it disappearing soon. North,south,east or west...you have good folks and you have some real dickheads too.Not sure how that pissing match started,typical internet muscles.

 

[Barlow]

NO! Barlow

 

[Tommie]

Now, im not a southerner, im from Kansas. So if i muck this up someone correct me. Grits are a corn product. They are a finely ground corn meal. Usually you cook them in a pot in the stove, then mix in other ingredients. Like bacon or what ever else you can think up. You might consider it a distant cousin of the Italian's polenta.

Basically correct but it’s coursely ground. Grits are made with white corn and polenta is made with yellow.

 

[Laurie]

While I agree with the thrust of your assessment and you did provide some excellent well considered categories, I think it skews the data to mix commercial and military cartridges. Granted, I'm not sure how one could assess commercial success that was not the result of either

(a) familiarity with the military cartridge,

(b) the result of the availability of inexpensive military surplus ammunition and components, or

(c) shooting disciplines that require the use of a military cartridge

from cartridges that were adopted because of their inherent qualities.

I omitted the military linkage issue to keep things fairly straightforward. Yes, starting as a military number gives a cartridge a huge head start, partly thanks to the reasons you mention, but also because the military nearly always do a good job so you get an inherently good performer out of it. Well .... saying that, that refers to the days of state operated arsenals which did the job properly if maybe too expensively for many politicians. I'm not at all sure of whether today's arrangements will ever produce cartridges with the appeal and functionality of the 30-06 and 308, although you can say that the 223 has more Remington in its parentage than Uncle Sam.

The absence of the military connection makes the success of the super-selling but purely civilian orientated designs that much more laudable - 243 Win, the Creedmoors, WSMs, 300 and 338 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag and some others. (Not to forget the grand-daddy .22 Long Rifle.)

 

[300_whisper]

.243 is a fine round,I don't see it disappearing soon. North,south,east or west...you have good folks and you have some real dickheads too.Not sure how that pissing match started,typical internet muscles.

I’m pretty sure everyone’s joking. It was just funny banter since the question was answered pretty quickly. No one means any of those comments.

 

[JaoeyP]

243 is about as obsolete as a cartridge as the 1911 is as a pistol...

 

[snert]

243 is about as obsolete as a cartridge as the 1911 is as a pistol...

dang it that was what I was going to say, but since you started it, i have to follow.
The Creedmore is the best thing since the Trapdoor and a Glock beats grits any day!