rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
Agreed... and why I had a 8 twist installed on a Rem 700 chambered in .243 when the factory barrel needed to be replaced. I’m anxious to test it’s performance against the 6BR using the same bullets... gonna be fun!
Is the .243 Win Obsolete ?
- Thread starter NDAR15MAN
- Start date
Agreed... and why I had a 8 twist installed on a Rem 700 chambered in .243 when the factory barrel needed to be replaced. I’m anxious to test it’s performance against the 6BR using the same bullets... gonna be fun!
I've been shooting one since the late 60's, it was my first center fire rifle, a Model 70 Winchester. It was the perfect choice for me at the time. I had very limited budget and I needed an all purpose rifle for varmints, predators and deer. In those days I shot factory ammo only. The only thing available was 80 grains for varmints and 100 for deer. While I never lost a deer to the 243 with the 100 grain bullets they often ran off leaving me with a tracking job. I started reading gun magazines and talked myself into believing that the 243 was inadequate for deer so I traded for a 30 -06. The additional recoil was unpleasant and I didn't shoot it well. I miss a few deer, anchored a few, and a few still ran off.
Fast forward a few years. I started reloading. On the advice of a seasoned hunter I respected I traded the 06 for another 243, Rem 700 and adopted his load for the 243. Started loading the 85 gain Sierra BTHT with IMR 4350. The bullet shot like a match bullet, very accurate. Terminal performance was outstanding, even on deer if you kept the shot behind the shoulder in the vitals. They rarely ran off and if they did only about 50 yards. I hunted a lot of varmints (i.e. ghogs) with it and it was excellent for them also. I became a discipline of the 243 Win. I currently have four of them. If I was force to have only one gun it would be the 243 Win because it does it all for me.
Light recoil, easy to shoot, easy to reload, capable of excellent accuracy, excellent terminal performance, and a vast availability of rifles / components. Mine will never be obsolete.
Fast forward a few years. I started reloading. On the advice of a seasoned hunter I respected I traded the 06 for another 243, Rem 700 and adopted his load for the 243. Started loading the 85 gain Sierra BTHT with IMR 4350. The bullet shot like a match bullet, very accurate. Terminal performance was outstanding, even on deer if you kept the shot behind the shoulder in the vitals. They rarely ran off and if they did only about 50 yards. I hunted a lot of varmints (i.e. ghogs) with it and it was excellent for them also. I became a discipline of the 243 Win. I currently have four of them. If I was force to have only one gun it would be the 243 Win because it does it all for me.
Light recoil, easy to shoot, easy to reload, capable of excellent accuracy, excellent terminal performance, and a vast availability of rifles / components. Mine will never be obsolete.
long40shot
Gold $$ Contributor
I love grits. Oh, and i love my 243.Hip flask of moonshine in the back pocket.
Eats grits for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Usually lives near a holler, up yonder.
Sounds like a great way to live!
Wish I was a Southerner.
..........except for the heat and humidity
long40shot
Gold $$ Contributor
I remember him. Whatever happened to him?
if i were to burn that much powder behind a 6mm bullet, i would prefer a more modern design. 6 slr, 6xc, 6 cm, etc... i think the 6 cm may be the more popular of the two in another generation or two, if we can still own guns by then... sorry for the cynicism.
those people say the same thing about the 7-08... i guarantee the only numbers they know are muzzle energy and muzzle velocity. 500 yards later and they think the 308 still has "manlier" numbers (but give you a blank stare if you mention 338 federal).
i think most of the forum readers here appreciate the difference, but the majority of everyone else doesn't even know there's a 115 grain bullet in 6mm. anything 80-90 is heavy to them, and "why would you need to go any bigger?" same with 22-250 and the 40 grainers. the ballistics can be improved upon by shooting a higher bc bullet, but 4000+ fps makes them happy. and why shouldn't it? i'm not personally satisfied with that route, i feel like the super light bullets are like shooting parachutes. i suppose those are some spectacular parachutes when they hit critters, up close, though
My upbringing was full of myths : The 243 was a "girl's cartridge" because girls couldn't take the kick of real deer rifle.
those people say the same thing about the 7-08... i guarantee the only numbers they know are muzzle energy and muzzle velocity. 500 yards later and they think the 308 still has "manlier" numbers (but give you a blank stare if you mention 338 federal).
i think most of the forum readers here appreciate the difference, but the majority of everyone else doesn't even know there's a 115 grain bullet in 6mm. anything 80-90 is heavy to them, and "why would you need to go any bigger?" same with 22-250 and the 40 grainers. the ballistics can be improved upon by shooting a higher bc bullet, but 4000+ fps makes them happy. and why shouldn't it? i'm not personally satisfied with that route, i feel like the super light bullets are like shooting parachutes. i suppose those are some spectacular parachutes when they hit critters, up close, though
The only flaw the 243 has these days is its case design. Aside from that, it will work as good as any of this new stuff on the market. I have a 6x47 Lapua too and I don't see much difference in accuracy between both. The Lapua is more efficient and has a better case design. That's about it though. Some of this new shit on the market will vanish over the years. I wont even look at it.
SteveOak
Gold $$ Contributor
Probably not. The geometry of the case is not optimal for accuracy. The shoulder angle is shallower and there is more taper to the case body. The diameter of the case compared to the length is not what has been shown to be optimal for accuracy. And just as the 6PPC is more accurate than the 6BR, ostensibly because of the case volume and geometry, the 243 case is much larger than the 6BR but I would like to see the comparison with a 105 to 108gr bullet.
As a non Southerner and as a non American, I've seen hundreds of references to grits in novels and elsewhere. But what ARE they, other than an (alleged
) form of food?On the 243 Win, a remarkably good cartridge in many respects, the SAAMI 1:10 rifling twist rate is its big downside for the match shooter, especially in a world where 1.5 Sg values are now needed for full bullet stabilisation.
For deerhunting (which I don't do), I have noticed that the easiest way to get a good row going on the UK's Stalking Forum ('stalking' a contraction of 'deerstalking' our word for deerhunting) is to praise or criticise the 243 in those endless 'What is the best calibre?' topics. Despite its huge use here for this purpose, it seems to have an equal number of detractors.
IME (not looking for any arguments here-just stating my observations from 50 years of hunting and target shooting center-fire) the .243 did not excel at anything. I've had at least a half dozen - bolts even a Colt Sauer, a lever M99 and I gave up on the cartridge about 25 years ago. I have experienced more tracking wounded whitetails at our camp from members using a .243 than any other caliber (no one has ever used a smaller cartridge). Before my BR competition days, I would spend hours at the range with my shooting bud trying to find the best accuracy out of our .243's without success- while with the .222 rifles they would shoot small with just about every load they were fed. When it came time to select a chambering for my children and now grandchildren the 7mm/08 was chosen and IMO it excells over the .243 in anchoring deer. In accuracy the 6 BR flat out amazes me how easy it is to get consistent agging accuracy without having to fine tune loads to daily conditions. The groups I get rival my PPC and 30 BR bench guns. Once it's biggest fan (.243), but real world experience showed me there are better alternatives.
Last edited:
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
I’m not expecting equality... just want to determine the differences based on my hand loading techniques and shooting skills (or lack thereof)! I will be using 105 VLDs...
Last edited:
That's an interesting question. History suggests that success or otherwise of a newly introduced cartridge soon shows up and that heavily influences its long-term prospects. There are apparently five or six categories of response to a new mainstream market design:
the 'lemons' - never sell well; only the original manufacturer produces ammunition and brass and often drops them after a few years of poor sales; no other manufacturer adopts them; few makes and models of rifle are chambered for it and within 10 years, 20 at most, they are quietly are dropped by the 'owning' manufacturer. For example, TC models, 6.5mm and 350 Rem Magnum. Very rarely, a cartridge is revived despite long term indifference when a new or modified role appears - 284 Win in over-SAAMI length form as long-range hunting and match round as well as the basis of many wildcats and the factory 6.5-284 Norma. The 7-30 Waters, a failure in its intended role to revive Winchester's 94AE levergun fortunes, but picked up by niche users in single-shot pistols.
the 'never quite make its'. They do well enough to survive but cannot be described as great successes. The 260 Rem falls into this category - apparently now unloved and uncared for by its creator Remington and only a few alternative loadings from other mainstream ammunition companies. It had a big chance of revival some years ago when sniper competitors and others picked it up, but it has been left to boutique manufacturers such as ABM and Prime Ammo to produce match and tactical rounds. Many hunting-only numbers fall into this category even if they are excellent designs - the 358 Winchester, for example, maybe the WSSMs.
the 'flashes in the pan'. Lots of initial excitement and good sales but before other manufacturers adopt it, downsides become apparent and/or 'a better mousetrap' appears. The 264 Winchester Magnum is the classic example - a great success until word of its barrel-burning propensities got around, but more importantly Remington's 7mm Magnum being introduced a couple of years later destroyed its remaining prospects.
the 'almost instant successes' - 223 Rem, 308 Win, WSMs, some of the 1960s Winchester and Remington Magnums. Even when better alternatives appear, many will stick with them. Most firearms and ammunition / brass manufacturers adopt them within five years of launch. They usually have a long-lasting appeal. (I say 'instant success', but 308 Win took a rather long time to be adopted across the board especially in the USA such was the hold of the .30-06 on the market.) I cannot think of one such in the past that once adopted by nearly all manufacturers and US shooters which fades away after 10 or even 20 years. These numbers become 'standards' - people talk about 308 class cartridges; 30-06 class etc. They are usually multi-role - range and field use.
the 'niche players' - either specialist numbers kept going in custom and rebarreled rifles and through handloading. 6mm BR and variants; 6.5X47 Lapua and suchlike. .... or specialist hunting numbers such as some Weatherby Magnums, 458 Lott etc.
The 6.5 Creedmoor falls into the 'instant success' category whether people are happy about that or not; whether they think it deserves it or not. In fact, it apparently outperforms even 308 and 223 at the same points in their development timelines in terms of adoption by manufacturers, but that is due to increased disposable wealth and changes in the market over the last 50 years. The number of people now producing brass and rifles for it is staggering given it's less than 10 years old. On a historical basis such investment and involvement suggests a long future run. It already falls into the 'standard' category replacing the 260 Rem and 6.5X55mm as the 'standard 6.5', for many younger shooters the only cartridge they even know of in this calibre.
long40shot
Gold $$ Contributor
As a non Southerner and as a non American, I've seen hundreds of references to grits in novels and elsewhere. But what ARE they, other than an (alleged
On the 243 Win, a remarkably good cartridge in many respects, the SAAMI 1:10 rifling twist rate is its big downside for the match shooter, especially in a world where 1.5 Sg values are now needed for full bullet stabilisation.
For deerhunting (which I don't do), I have noticed that the easiest way to get a good row going on the UK's Stalking Forum ('stalking' a contraction of 'deerstalking' our word for deerhunting) is to praise or criticise the 243 in those endless 'What is the best calibre?' topics. Despite its huge use here for this purpose, it seems to have an equal number of detractors.
Now, im not a southerner, im from Kansas. So if i muck this up someone correct me. Grits are a corn product. They are a finely ground corn meal. Usually you cook them in a pot in the stove, then mix in other ingredients. Like bacon or what ever else you can think up. You might consider it a distant cousin of the Italian's polenta.
Thank you long40shot. I don't think we have an equivalent in the UK, although 'porridge' (made out of coarse oatmeal) used mainly for breakfast these days and originating in Scotland must be at least as puzzling to a non-native, especially the insistence by any kilt wearing native that it should be liberally sprinkled with salt before consumption.
I think you could compare grits to Semolina pudding, it's not quite as good as a slice of fried dumpling
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.