Is N165 as temperature stable as H4831sc?

[maxpower]

I have just come across 2 bottles on N165 which I was going to try in my 7 SAUM which goes well with H4831sc. I was wondering if N165 is as temperature stable as H4831sc? Reason I ask is my current 7 Saum is a little finicky and I have to adjust loads depending on temperatures and didn't want to bother with N165 if it was going to be worse than H4831sc with the temperature changes I get.

 

[Scott Harris]

None of the VV powders are as stable as the Hodgdon extreme powders in my experience. I've used N140, N150, N160, N165

 

[maxpower]

Not what I wanted to hear. I have tried N560 and found it too sensitive but was hoping N165 would not be so bad.

 

[Erik Cortina]

N165 will work well. I have used it for a long time.
If your gun is too sensitive it means you are not in the middle of a wide node.
Another plus for N165 is that it is the coolest burning powder you will find, so barrel life will be extended.

 

[Steve Blair]

N165 will work well. I have used it for a long time.
If your gun is too sensitive it means you are not in the middle of a wide node.
Another plus for N165 is that it is the coolest burning powder you will find, so barrel life will be extended.

[br]
+1

 

[maxpower]

N165 will work well. I have used it for a long time.
If your gun is too sensitive it means you are not in the middle of a wide node.
Another plus for N165 is that it is the coolest burning powder you will find, so barrel life will be extended.

The problem is I have not been able to find a big wide node with this barrel so far. I have gone up as far as pressures will allow, down to the low 2800 fps area, bullets jammed and jumped and it can be great but I have no wide tune like some The reason I want to switch to cool burning N165 is to preserve throat which I have half worn out from testing.

 

[Steve Blair]

The problem is I have not been able to find a big wide node with this barrel so far. I have gone up as far as pressures will allow, down to the low 2800 fps area, bullets jammed and jumped and it can be great but I have no wide tune like some The reason I want to switch to cool burning N165 is to preserve throat which I have half worn out from testing.

[br]
What primers have you tried?

 

[maxpower]

The problem is I have not been able to find a big wide node with this barrel so far. I have gone up as far as pressures will allow, down to the low 2800 fps area, bullets jammed and jumped and it can be great but I have no wide tune like some The reason I want to switch to cool burning N165 is to preserve throat which I have half worn out from testing.

[br]
What primers have you tried?

BR2, Wolf, Tula, CCI250s, Fed 215M.
H4831sc liked BR2s and Tula equal best.

 

[ebb]

VV165 works best in my 6.5-284 I think you will like it.

 

[Steve Blair]

BR2, Wolf, Tula, CCI250s, Fed 215M.
H4831sc liked BR2s and Tula equal best.

[br]
When you shot your series with each of these primers, did the Russian and CCI produce the lowest ES? I assume that you tried both Russian LR and LRM?

 

[maxpower]

BR2, Wolf, Tula, CCI250s, Fed 215M.
H4831sc liked BR2s and Tula equal best.

[br]
When you shot your series with each of these primers, did the Russian and CCI produce the lowest ES? I assume that you tried both Russian LR and LRM?

Yes, any primer testing I do is with a chronograph and the Russians and BR2s both gave lowest ES/SD. The Russian LR and LRM both gave similar readings, so I stuck with the LRs.

 

[M99]

I had temperature problems using N160 in my 7 RSAUM. At about 50F it shot very well at 58G with no signs of pressure, and didn't like much more than that, even though it never showed signs of pressure up to 59G. When it got to about 75F out, the groups opened up, and I had just enough bolt stick in a Barnard action that I decided it was a dangerous load in that condition and pulled out of a match using that 58G load and 180 Hybrids. I'm going to switch to H4831SC as soon as that arrives. Any tips on loads using that powder and the same bullets? I also found that the Tula Primers shot better ES than the Federal 210M with the N160.

 

[maxpower]

I had temperature problems using N160 in my 7 RSAUM. At about 50F it shot very well at 58G with no signs of pressure, and didn't like much more than that, even though it never showed signs of pressure up to 59G. When it got to about 75F out, the groups opened up, and I had just enough bolt stick in a Barnard action that I decided it was a dangerous load in that condition and pulled out of a match using that 58G load and 180 Hybrids. I'm going to switch to H4831SC as soon as that arrives. Any tips on loads using that powder and the same bullets? I also found that the Tula Primers shot better ES than the Federal 210M with the N160.

Seems similar to what I found with N165. I had to drop my load as weather got warmer or groups blew out and I started getting ejector marks. When using H4831sc, it also did this but only with much larger temperature swings. Once I dropped down to my summer load with N165, groups came back again when the day warmed up. I am not sure if I tried the Fed 210s in this barrel but after seeing the ES/SD with Tulas, I didn't see any reason to experiment further.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I had temperature problems using N160 in my 7 RSAUM. At about 50F it shot very well at 58G with no signs of pressure, and didn't like much more than that, even though it never showed signs of pressure up to 59G. When it got to about 75F out, the groups opened up, and I had just enough bolt stick in a Barnard action that I decided it was a dangerous load in that condition and pulled out of a match using that 58G load and 180 Hybrids. I'm going to switch to H4831SC as soon as that arrives. Any tips on loads using that powder and the same bullets? I also found that the Tula Primers shot better ES than the Federal 210M with the N160.

Seems similar to what I found with N165. I had to drop my load as weather got warmer or groups blew out and I started getting ejector marks. When using H4831sc, it also did this but only with much larger temperature swings. Once I dropped down to my summer load with N165, groups came back again when the day warmed up. I am not sure if I tried the Fed 210s in this barrel but after seeing the ES/SD with Tulas, I didn't see any reason to experiment further.

This is a symptom of people not knowing where their powder nodes start and end. If you know where your node is, you can load towards the bottom of the node in the summer and towards the top in the winter. This is a good idea with any powder as all powders are temperature sensitive.

 

[zx10mike]

I had temperature problems using N160 in my 7 RSAUM. At about 50F it shot very well at 58G with no signs of pressure, and didn't like much more than that, even though it never showed signs of pressure up to 59G. When it got to about 75F out, the groups opened up, and I had just enough bolt stick in a Barnard action that I decided it was a dangerous load in that condition and pulled out of a match using that 58G load and 180 Hybrids. I'm going to switch to H4831SC as soon as that arrives. Any tips on loads using that powder and the same bullets? I also found that the Tula Primers shot better ES than the Federal 210M with the N160.

Seems similar to what I found with N165. I had to drop my load as weather got warmer or groups blew out and I started getting ejector marks. When using H4831sc, it also did this but only with much larger temperature swings. Once I dropped down to my summer load with N165, groups came back again when the day warmed up. I am not sure if I tried the Fed 210s in this barrel but after seeing the ES/SD with Tulas, I didn't see any reason to experiment further.

This is a symptom of people not knowing where their powder nodes start and end. If you know where your node is, you can load towards the bottom of the node in the summer and towards the top in the winter. This is a good idea with any powder as all powders are temperature sensitive.

with n165 in the shehane i found the accuracy node was broad but the extreme spread was better right at the peak risking dropping out of the accuracy node in hot weather in order to keep es low

 

[Erik Cortina]

I had temperature problems using N160 in my 7 RSAUM. At about 50F it shot very well at 58G with no signs of pressure, and didn't like much more than that, even though it never showed signs of pressure up to 59G. When it got to about 75F out, the groups opened up, and I had just enough bolt stick in a Barnard action that I decided it was a dangerous load in that condition and pulled out of a match using that 58G load and 180 Hybrids. I'm going to switch to H4831SC as soon as that arrives. Any tips on loads using that powder and the same bullets? I also found that the Tula Primers shot better ES than the Federal 210M with the N160.

Seems similar to what I found with N165. I had to drop my load as weather got warmer or groups blew out and I started getting ejector marks. When using H4831sc, it also did this but only with much larger temperature swings. Once I dropped down to my summer load with N165, groups came back again when the day warmed up. I am not sure if I tried the Fed 210s in this barrel but after seeing the ES/SD with Tulas, I didn't see any reason to experiment further.

This is a symptom of people not knowing where their powder nodes start and end. If you know where your node is, you can load towards the bottom of the node in the summer and towards the top in the winter. This is a good idea with any powder as all powders are temperature sensitive.

with n165 in the shehane i found the accuracy node was broad but the extreme spread was better right at the peak risking dropping out of the accuracy node in hot weather in order to keep es low

That means your node is not as wide as you think. You have a narrow node then. Try differen primers.

 

[M99]

I had temperature problems using N160 in my 7 RSAUM. At about 50F it shot very well at 58G with no signs of pressure, and didn't like much more than that, even though it never showed signs of pressure up to 59G. When it got to about 75F out, the groups opened up, and I had just enough bolt stick in a Barnard action that I decided it was a dangerous load in that condition and pulled out of a match using that 58G load and 180 Hybrids. I'm going to switch to H4831SC as soon as that arrives. Any tips on loads using that powder and the same bullets? I also found that the Tula Primers shot better ES than the Federal 210M with the N160.

Seems similar to what I found with N165. I had to drop my load as weather got warmer or groups blew out and I started getting ejector marks. When using H4831sc, it also did this but only with much larger temperature swings. Once I dropped down to my summer load with N165, groups came back again when the day warmed up. I am not sure if I tried the Fed 210s in this barrel but after seeing the ES/SD with Tulas, I didn't see any reason to experiment further.

This is a symptom of people not knowing where their powder nodes start and end. If you know where your node is, you can load towards the bottom of the node in the summer and towards the top in the winter. This is a good idea with any powder as all powders are temperature sensitive.

What do you consider to be an acceptable node size? .6, .9, 1.2 Grains? It can be pretty hard to find a wide node that also provides acceptable velocity. Its a serious question, not meant to be argumentative.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I had temperature problems using N160 in my 7 RSAUM. At about 50F it shot very well at 58G with no signs of pressure, and didn't like much more than that, even though it never showed signs of pressure up to 59G. When it got to about 75F out, the groups opened up, and I had just enough bolt stick in a Barnard action that I decided it was a dangerous load in that condition and pulled out of a match using that 58G load and 180 Hybrids. I'm going to switch to H4831SC as soon as that arrives. Any tips on loads using that powder and the same bullets? I also found that the Tula Primers shot better ES than the Federal 210M with the N160.

Seems similar to what I found with N165. I had to drop my load as weather got warmer or groups blew out and I started getting ejector marks. When using H4831sc, it also did this but only with much larger temperature swings. Once I dropped down to my summer load with N165, groups came back again when the day warmed up. I am not sure if I tried the Fed 210s in this barrel but after seeing the ES/SD with Tulas, I didn't see any reason to experiment further.

This is a symptom of people not knowing where their powder nodes start and end. If you know where your node is, you can load towards the bottom of the node in the summer and towards the top in the winter. This is a good idea with any powder as all powders are temperature sensitive.

What do you consider to be an acceptable node size? .6, .9, 1.2 Grains? It can be pretty hard to find a wide node that also provides acceptable velocity. Its a serious question, not meant to be argumentative.

Most of the nodes are .6 - .8 gr. wide.

 

[Steve Blair]

What do you consider to be an acceptable node size? .6, .9, 1.2 Grains? It can be pretty hard to find a wide node that also provides acceptable velocity. Its a serious question, not meant to be argumentative.

Most of the nodes are .6 - .8 gr. wide.

[br]
That's my experience, too. I've found widest nodes and lowest ES just below full pressure. If you are not seeing a clear result, switch primers or primer lots. There is no universal primer for every load. My approach is to start with mildest primers and try progressively hotter, if necessary.

 

[zx10mike]

what do you guys call realistic good es ?