Is it Hoarding or is it Prudence?

[rr2030]

This is the yard stick I would use to answer the OP's original statement:

If you are winning matches and the attendance is normal, it's prudence.

If you are winning matches because many ran out of components and the attendance is low, thats hoarding.

 

[dryhumor]

Simple math. If you are X years old, and expect to shoot X number of rounds per year, for X amount of years in your life, then it is perfectly acceptable to have X amount of ammo/components.

To argue otherwise is a fool’s errand. Though they will.... neither hoarding or prudence. Just normal

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I shoot a lot of ammo. I have always believed that you should have a good supply on hand. I have two sons and a daughter who also shoot. This means that no matter how large a supply, I have on hand, it will never go to waste.

My children and I have always tried to have more rather than less of anything we use. Not just shooting supplies. Is that hording? I am not in a panic over a shortage. I am a bit put out by the fear of limits that may be placed on all of us when it comes to future purchases. The political climate will change drastically in the coming years.

Many will be forced to change their shooting and purchasing habits. Gone will be the ability of on line buying. There will be limits on how much you can buy at any given time. You will have to go through a lot of hoops just to purchase a pound of powder or 100 primers. Only so many rounds of ammo per month will be allowed.

So buy what you perceive you will need now and keep it to your self. The new President is our enemy. His stated policy is to do away with as many firearms as possible. All of this will be taken to court and I suspect will take a lot of time to adjudicate. Our only hope is that the Senate remains in conservative hands. Even if it does, there is always executive order, which will mean more defensive action of the 2nd amendment.

I will continue to buy anything I use when it is available and not be offended by the word "hoarder."

 

[Dgd6mm]

Simple math. If you are X years old, and expect to shoot X number of rounds per year, for X amount of years in your life, then it is perfectly acceptable to have X amount of ammo/components.

To argue otherwise is a fool’s errand. Though they will.... neither hoarding or prudence. Just normal

This is good, real good. Those of you that buy supplies this year for next year, then next year buy for the following year, my question to you is why? The only reason I can see is affordability. This takes diligence, tho I don't do it, purchase two years worth on a credit card, pay it off in 2 months. I will guarantee it will be cheaper in the long run and less headache. When I screw a new barrel on I usually have all the components to burn it out ahead of sending the first round down range. If you shoot 1500, 2000, 3000 centerfire rounds a year you are not going to do it on 8 pounds of powder and a 1000 primers. Knowledge of basic math and Presidential elections every 4 years is pretty simple to figure things out if you're a reloader. Never take anything for granted.

 

[LAH]

Like others I simply purchase what I shoot when it's on sale & lay it back. I have plenty for a long time to come. I didn't purchase the stuff to hoard, I purchased to shoot.

 

[dbaird]

Just some random thoughts on the current situation.

Is it hoarding or is it prudence? I cast my mind back to 1993 and 1994 - The Brady Bill and the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994. I remember the sweeping changes enacted by The Feds and an enthusiastic enforcement by many states. Overnight the scenery changed - and if you weren't prepared then you were SOL for the next ten years. Admittedly these laws expired and we now have just a few lingering shadows, but at the time it was a scramble moment to get these things (AR's, magazines, etc...) before they were illegaled.

The opponents of 2A are very smart. They are also very crafty. They read the same articles, the same bulletin boards, and the same forums that we do. They don't see a problem; instead, they see an opportunity. An opportunity to enact sweeping changes to make the world a better place as they see fit. They want to tell you how to live, how you should act, what you should or shouldn't support. Guns and Ammo are not part of their worldview and they will go to extraordinary measures to ensure they are not part of yours. If they can't get your guns, why not take away the ammunition?

Many of the "details" of a Bill are buried, or attached as a "rider" to an otherwise unrelated Bill. When will you be accused of sitting on an "Arsenal of 5 guns and thousands of bullets."? The problem we face as volume shooters and reloaders is just that - perception is reality. Even the kindest-hearted liberals became enraged at toilet paper and sanitizer hoarders. The pictures of that little old lady staring at empty shelves, the tear-jerking stories of people not being able to get what they "absolutely needed". But I will lay bets that the people virtue-signalling also had what they needed plus a stash above and beyond that. They certainly aren't buying that TP today, they are just reaching into the closet, or attic, or backyard shed.

When will the tides change, and what will bring them about? Another nutball who decides to take a few folks with him, some mentally diseased individual who crafts a bomb, or a family that is taken away too soon by a lowlife for nefarious reasons? You can bet that there are Bills and other legislation pre-written and waiting for these developments. Ready to put in front of a shocked House, Senate, and President to be enacted at the soonest opportunity and without review.

So I have taken these lessons and learned from them. We live in a capitalist system. The market will determine what the buyer is prepared to purchase. I am still looking for components and I have been "price-gouged" to a certain degree. I have also seen egregious examples of profiteering. I don't like it or agree with it, but it is what it is. I see it as prudence under the current conditions to get what I can, when I can. If that means dropping my standards of living a little then I will. No more road trips, eating sandwiches from home instead of buying lunch, and cancelling a few luxuries. Then venturing forward with these few saved dollars to find what I can.

Sorry if I step on your toes on the way to the counter at the local gun store, or if I put in that last-second bid, or if I clear the shelves just minutes before you get there. If you made it there first then I salute you - maybe we can horse-trade later. Give me the stink-eye and tell me what a bad person I am. I will admit it and walk out the door with a heavy heart - and 12 pounds of powder and 1000 primers.

The world isn't pretty. I just try to live here.

I live over 100 miles from nearest place with a good selection of reloading supplies. Several years ago I purchased several cases of primers-several boxes of Lapua brass(500) for most of my rifles-over a dozen 8lb jugs of powder-This was long before any shortage-not hoarding just economical and convenient.I do share with friends when they run short but when I run short I will buy again in bulk.

 

[yotehater]

I'm glad I stocked up before the hoarding began. I learned my lesson in '92.

 

[Rube Shooter]

Any other time, hoarding or prudence might fit, but for the future it may be survival.

Someone, somewhere is trying to figure a way to stop the flow of components to those who reload. Ammo first, then components and we will have little use of our firearms.

I hate to think that this can happen in America, but I have been surprised quite often in 2020.

Nothing is surprising anymore. It really sucks to think of this possibly happening.

We live in a country where drugs are illegal for the most part and we haven't been able to stop smugglers from bringing them into our country and even prisons.

I can see a huge black market springing up for ammo if the powers that be decided to stop components and ammo from being available. The same people that make money from allowing drugs to come in would just have a new market that they would profit from.

Edit: In reply to OP I see it as prudence if you buy your necessaries during the good times. I have managed to not have to buy much of anything during lean times. I learned my lesson during oBama's reign. I have bought my stuff a little here and a little there over the years since then.
I really don't do much target and no competition shooting. I have enough for the long haul for my hunting guns and any informal trips to the range to scratch the itch for some fun.

 

[Evan]

This is good, real good. Those of you that buy supplies this year for next year, then next year buy for the following year, my question to you is why? The only reason I can see is affordability.

For me, it's about supply chain stability. Imagine you are a gun store owner and you've got a large group of guys that each randomly show up only every now and then and clean your shelves of their favorite components. How do you plan for that? Do you just keep a ton of product on hand at all times, living with the loss of liquidity from the large capital investment, along with the storage requirements of all that product too? All the while waiting for the long-termer to show up and buy it all in one fell swoop, creating a hole in your stock until you can get it replaced. Maybe that long-termer shows up this month, or maybe not until next year, either way the store owner sits on a big stack of stuff that represents a large percentage of their available funds, waiting for it to sell and then rushing to replace it all only to wait again. They have to hope all the long-termers don't show up consequtively, each one after the first disgruntled there is no supply and taking their business elsewhere that hasn't been hit yet by a long-termer.

A store owner can plan their supplies with a lot more accuracy when their customers are regular consumers, while keeping more of their funds liquid by buying and selling smaller quantities at a faster pace. So I have a supply of stuff laid in and I try to on a regular basis replace what I use to maintain smooth, predictable demand for the gun shops I go to.

EDIT: My definition of hoarding is when purchasing is exceeding consumption. If I go buy 50k primers more often than once every ten years, that's hoarding because I only shoot maybe 5000 per year. To tie this to my above point, you could see how hard it would be for a business if I only showed up once a decade and bought 10 cases of CCI 450 and then disappeared again.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I am sick and tired of hearing we live in a capitalist system. empty shelves and shortages are signs of a communist system. big companies pay off the govt to crush competition the foundation of capitalism and that includes ammo companies. Norinco was banned along with Russian shooting products and I do not doubt US companies behind it. Norinco would deliver a billion primers a day here along with Russia and other ammo components.
you want to see pure competition look at the teslong borescope for 50-60 bucks which uses better tech they the insanely expensive Hawkeye. hawkeye was not big enough to pay the govt to block the teslong scope

 

[dryhumor]

This is good, real good. Those of you that buy supplies this year for next year, then next year buy for the following year, my question to you is why? The only reason I can see is affordability. This takes diligence, tho I don't do it, purchase two years worth on a credit card, pay it off in 2 months. I will guarantee it will be cheaper in the long run and less headache. When I screw a new barrel on I usually have all the components to burn it out ahead of sending the first round down range. If you shoot 1500, 2000, 3000 centerfire rounds a year you are not going to do it on 8 pounds of powder and a 1000 primers. Knowledge of basic math and Presidential elections every 4 years is pretty simple to figure things out if you're a reloader. Never take anything for granted.

For me, I’m getting close to retirement. I’m thinning what I don’t need, trying to keep what I do need. I feel it’s better to buy while I have a decent income, than when it’s less than now. I plan on ramping up shooting after I retire ( or semi retire), so any savings is worthwhile.

I shoot a lot of SRP, I’ve switched to shooting more LRP cartridges. I looked at my meager 3k small pistol primers the other day and felt good that I have at least that many, about the same large pistol. And when the 45 Colt lever arrives next week, my pistol primers will start dwindling...

FWIW, I found in the obummer years, that if any powder was capable of sending a particular bullet down range and was available ya might as well pick some up. Might not be the most desirable but you can still shoot. Sometimes with surprising results.

 

[Downhill]

I feel bad for the new guys just entering handloading. My son in law started his own construction business this year. 16 hour days pretty common for the guy. Has had his nose down with his work and was unaware of the shortages. He is a 300 Win Mag fanatic. When he called me about where to find components, I told him I have everything he needs until all this calms down. Probably many new to reloading without the ability to pursue this endeavour.

 

[Bc'z]

Its neither hoarding or prudence, it's my savings account.
Some of us have more savings than others, all of us make multiple withdraws on a regular basis from .$20-$3.00 at a time.

 

[TheOtherZilla]

Depends on who's doing it. Others: Hoarding. Me: Prudence.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I am sick and tired of hearing we live in a capitalist system. empty shelves and shortages are signs of a communist system. big companies pay off the govt to crush competition the foundation of capitalism and that includes ammo companies. Norinco was banned along with Russian shooting products and I do not doubt US companies behind it. Norinco would deliver a billion primers a day here along with Russia and other ammo components.
you want to see pure competition look at the teslong borescope for 50-60 bucks which uses better tech they the insanely expensive Hawkeye. hawkeye was not big enough to pay the govt to block the teslong scope

I own both. The Teslong is no Hawkeye, it's not even close. And it is the marked differences between the two that cause the price of the Hawkeye to be so much greater. However, the Teslong is a much, much better borescope than other more modestly-priced borescopes that were previous available, and it's functionality is more than sufficient for most users. So it has gotten a good deal of acclaim because shooters that were unwilling or unable to drop $900 on a Hawkeye have a much more reasonably-priced option available to them.

Empty shelves are empty shelves. There is no way to attribute some underlying reason such as communism to appearance empty shelves without knowing the the real economic reasons that actually caused them. In this case, it is simply supply and demand. Russian primers were banned as part of Obama's economic sanctions against Russia for their actions in Crimea, and later Ukraine. It's really that simple.

The real reason people are weeping and gnashing their teeth about the lack of primer availability is simply because THEY can't go out and buy some primers whenever they want. It is frustration and anger that THEY were not far-sighted enough to buy components before the shortage occurred, and as a result are now without. So they direct their frustration and anger toward those that were wise enough to stock up and buy sufficient reloading components to last them through lean times, further blaming them for the current primer shortage. I get it, that's just human nature. However, people in the U.S. buying 1000, 5000, or 10,000 primers at a time are NOT the reason why they are currently not on the shelves, no matter how much the people that currently don't have any would like them to be. No one complained about people buying large quantities of reloading components when they were plentiful, because there were enough on the shelves that they could still get them whenever they wanted. They only complain now because THEY have been inconvenienced. Those that are without will always rail against those that are not. An argument can certainly be made that primer availability now that the shortage is already upon is has been lessened further by panic buying whenever a few boxes do actually appear on the shelves, however, that is still not the underlying reason that caused this shortage in the first place. When demand exceeds supply, panic buying almost always occurs, but panic buying is generally is not the original cause of the the shortage, because it usually only occurs after items have either completely disappeared from the shelves, or are getting close to doing so.

 

[kelbro]

Depends on who's doing it. Others: Hoarding. Me: Prudence.

I was thinking the same thing

 

[mike a]

I so wish I could afford to be a hoarder.

 

[dave@aDave]

We can always make our own black powder and cast bullets out of whatever is handy.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Hoarder, derogatory slang term used by those who are confused by a reoccurring problem, often directed towards the people who have learned the lesson the hard way and took the necessary steps to solve the problem. Buy all you can afford I say. The actions and scopes and stocks are usually pretty easy, components are the expensive part if you are doing it correctly.

I buy a beef every year, my freezer is full, so I’m responsible for the national ribeye shortage FYI.

 

[jelenko]

I own both. The Teslong is no Hawkeye, it's not even close. And it is the marked differences between the two that cause the price of the Hawkeye to be so much greater. However, the Teslong is a much, much better borescope than other more modestly-priced borescopes that were previous available, and it's functionality is more than sufficient for most users. So it has gotten a good deal of acclaim because shooters that were unwilling or unable to drop $900 on a Hawkeye have a much more reasonably-priced option available to them.

Empty shelves are empty shelves. There is no way to attribute some underlying reason such as communism to appearance empty shelves without knowing the the real economic reasons that actually caused them. In this case, it is simply supply and demand. Russian primers were banned as part of Obama's economic sanctions against Russia for their actions in Crimea, and later Ukraine. It's really that simple.

The real reason people are weeping and gnashing their teeth about the lack of primer availability is simply because THEY can't go out and buy some primers whenever they want. It is frustration and anger that THEY were not far-sighted enough to buy components before the shortage occurred, and as a result are now without. So they direct their frustration and anger toward those that were wise enough to stock up and buy sufficient reloading components to last them through lean times, further blaming them for the current primer shortage. I get it, that's just human nature. However, people in the U.S. buying 1000, 5000, or 10,000 primers at a time are NOT the reason why they are currently not on the shelves, no matter how much the people that currently don't have any would like them to be. No one complained about people buying large quantities of reloading components when they were plentiful, because there were enough on the shelves that they could still get them whenever they wanted. They only complain now because THEY have been inconvenienced. Those that are without will always rail against those that are not. An argument can certainly be made that primer availability now that the shortage is already upon is has been lessened further by panic buying whenever a few boxes do actually appear on the shelves, however, that is still not the underlying reason that caused this shortage in the first place. When demand exceeds supply, panic buying almost always occurs, but panic buying is generally is not the original cause of the the shortage, because it usually only occurs after items have either completely disappeared from the shelves, or are getting close to doing so.

Well said! Thanks.