Is CH4D out of business?
- Thread starter 17tbs
- Start date
dhagerty40
Gold $$ Contributor
are you sure they may be closed for Thanksgiving?
Aero
Gold $$ Contributor
No, they didn't have one in stock and I passed when they quoted an 18 month wait.
Interesting. I had the exact same conversation with them about 4 weeks ago.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
18 months??
Good grief. That has to be some kind of record.
i tried looking up some 20mm vulcan dies a few days ago for fun and i couldn't find their website anymore so i was wondering the same thing
CH tool & die website is working
I did a little research. He passed away this year, at the age of 83.
morelandfuneralhome.com
Moreland Funeral Home | David Matthew Davison
morelandfuneralhome.com
So, in essence, if 18+ monthe being too lengthy of a wait, and assuming that it is also too long to wait for other people, ch4d will get less and less business when other tool and die manufacturers are quoting 3 month lead times.
Essentially this puts a company out of a line of business, so, they may decide to shutter it all together.
I can't blame them from a business perspective.
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Ohh, Jeasus, that explains a lot. I feel awful knowing this and thinking before it was something else.I did a little research. He passed away this year, at the age of 83.
Moreland Funeral Home | David Matthew Davison
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
I last purchased a die from them in July. It was all systems go at the time. Initial emails were a couple days to be answered, follow ups either by phone or same day email.
The company was rebranded/incorporated a few years ago when Dave’s kids took over. CH Tool and Die. Still one of the best things going for obsolete cartridges.
From their about us page
The company was rebranded/incorporated a few years ago when Dave’s kids took over. CH Tool and Die. Still one of the best things going for obsolete cartridges.
From their about us page
Just ordered 2 die sets last week. There were only 2 people working last week due to hunting and Thanksgiving. Feel very lucky that both calibers I needed were in stock. Otherwise I would be in the same boat as others.
Update
CH4D is in business. Getting them to pick up the phone is difficult. Sending them a message through the contact / message page seems much more effective.
I finally had a reply by phone call from Jacob. He is very courteous and responsive over the phone.
I finally was told by Jacob that there are dies for me ready to send my way. I am the only person who ever ordered any of the .172" VHA 40° Ackley dies.
If you want these dies he has a couple still on the shelf as backup. 2years and 3 months later but finally they are catching up on backorders. If anyone wants a matching chamber reamer print for this, I designed it and had JGS make it. Brass life was 30+ at below 55kpsi using H4227, or H322, H335, or H4198. Case springback from shots was within the case's elastic limit so these just needed the primer replaced, no reforming necessary at all.
We will see what sort of results I get from the new dies being shipped in a few days.
CH4D is in business. Getting them to pick up the phone is difficult. Sending them a message through the contact / message page seems much more effective.
I finally had a reply by phone call from Jacob. He is very courteous and responsive over the phone.
I finally was told by Jacob that there are dies for me ready to send my way. I am the only person who ever ordered any of the .172" VHA 40° Ackley dies.
If you want these dies he has a couple still on the shelf as backup. 2years and 3 months later but finally they are catching up on backorders. If anyone wants a matching chamber reamer print for this, I designed it and had JGS make it. Brass life was 30+ at below 55kpsi using H4227, or H322, H335, or H4198. Case springback from shots was within the case's elastic limit so these just needed the primer replaced, no reforming necessary at all.
We will see what sort of results I get from the new dies being shipped in a few days.
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Now a review:
The CH4D dies are nothing except excellent, with the only gripe being the style of the bullet seater in the seater die.
As far as accuracy goes.., well the first 6 bullets at 20yds, i.e., very close range, went into one ragged hole .
.172" 17gr HNDY Vmax, 3.27gr Hi-Skor 700X went 2486 for average with an SD of 23fps. This is not a great SD but not a bad group, even at close range. I DO NOT RECOMMEND HS700x AS IT IS AN EXTREEMELY FAST POWDER. It is what I have on hand ffrom an earlier use as a sub sonic load in .172VHA , so CAUTION, (read BOOOOM if you accidentally add .5 gr too much). DO NOT LOOK AT ME if you go out on a limb and use it YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
The second set fired was of the 20gr Game point HMR. Not good velocity consistency at all, but my seating ddepths were probably way out off the lands. same load as above with an average of 2246fps, SD of 80+, again 6 shots into under .300" at 20 yds.
The load with the flake powder was very quiet considering the velocities, and the calculated muzzle pressures in psi are right around 4400 psi. If I were to guess it is about as quiet as a .22lr.
CCI BR400 primers were reseated, none were loose, the base of the brass was not changed perceptibly on a dial micrometer from an unfired virgin brass condition.
I should try to get ahold of some small pistol primers, but thhe primer situation is pretty difficult at the minute.
Necks expanded to .197" and after resizing in the NS die, went to .195" very consistently, very consistent pressure in a Lee hand loader, very little effort. This produes some more neck tension, but if I did not want to bother with it the same projectile has gentle pressure if seated with the fingers without being neck sized at all, about enough pressure to seat a thumbtack in a gypsum board, not nothing, but not much at all.
Base of brass expanded consistently to .315" has not much if any wiggle room when rechambered.
I have not FL resized any of the 20 pieces of brass as they all fit perfectly in the chamber after NS.
Time will tell what the brass life will be but I think it will be quite a while before I loose any to fatigue.
Incidentally, 3 shots with some old bullets made by Bill E for barrel buyers a lonnnngggg time ago went 3059, 3040, and 3044 fps across the chonograph and printed just a little higher than the 700x loads, that was witth H4227, and 9.2gr of powder, seated at various depths but not touching the lands. I am unimpressed by the velocity but can not complain about that SD. I would not really call it an SD since there were only 3 shots with that projectile.
I will see what I can do with other bullets andd loads, mostly MP300 under the light bullets and H4198 under all 25gr+ , 30gr, and some even heavier.
Velocities using H4198 with the 30gr Golds were around 3010fps in my earlier attempts, so I will likely revisit it as the pressures are also a lot lower than with H4227. It seems that the H4227 will be just for projectiles of 20gr and under, anything else will get H4198 if I am after velocity. MP300 will be for the 18gr and under bullets, it get the best velocity, but it is touchy to say the least around max pressure.
The CH4D dies are nothing except excellent, with the only gripe being the style of the bullet seater in the seater die.
As far as accuracy goes.., well the first 6 bullets at 20yds, i.e., very close range, went into one ragged hole .
.172" 17gr HNDY Vmax, 3.27gr Hi-Skor 700X went 2486 for average with an SD of 23fps. This is not a great SD but not a bad group, even at close range. I DO NOT RECOMMEND HS700x AS IT IS AN EXTREEMELY FAST POWDER. It is what I have on hand ffrom an earlier use as a sub sonic load in .172VHA , so CAUTION, (read BOOOOM if you accidentally add .5 gr too much). DO NOT LOOK AT ME if you go out on a limb and use it YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
The second set fired was of the 20gr Game point HMR. Not good velocity consistency at all, but my seating ddepths were probably way out off the lands. same load as above with an average of 2246fps, SD of 80+, again 6 shots into under .300" at 20 yds.
The load with the flake powder was very quiet considering the velocities, and the calculated muzzle pressures in psi are right around 4400 psi. If I were to guess it is about as quiet as a .22lr.
CCI BR400 primers were reseated, none were loose, the base of the brass was not changed perceptibly on a dial micrometer from an unfired virgin brass condition.
I should try to get ahold of some small pistol primers, but thhe primer situation is pretty difficult at the minute.
Necks expanded to .197" and after resizing in the NS die, went to .195" very consistently, very consistent pressure in a Lee hand loader, very little effort. This produes some more neck tension, but if I did not want to bother with it the same projectile has gentle pressure if seated with the fingers without being neck sized at all, about enough pressure to seat a thumbtack in a gypsum board, not nothing, but not much at all.
Base of brass expanded consistently to .315" has not much if any wiggle room when rechambered.
I have not FL resized any of the 20 pieces of brass as they all fit perfectly in the chamber after NS.
Time will tell what the brass life will be but I think it will be quite a while before I loose any to fatigue.
Incidentally, 3 shots with some old bullets made by Bill E for barrel buyers a lonnnngggg time ago went 3059, 3040, and 3044 fps across the chonograph and printed just a little higher than the 700x loads, that was witth H4227, and 9.2gr of powder, seated at various depths but not touching the lands. I am unimpressed by the velocity but can not complain about that SD. I would not really call it an SD since there were only 3 shots with that projectile.
I will see what I can do with other bullets andd loads, mostly MP300 under the light bullets and H4198 under all 25gr+ , 30gr, and some even heavier.
Velocities using H4198 with the 30gr Golds were around 3010fps in my earlier attempts, so I will likely revisit it as the pressures are also a lot lower than with H4227. It seems that the H4227 will be just for projectiles of 20gr and under, anything else will get H4198 if I am after velocity. MP300 will be for the 18gr and under bullets, it get the best velocity, but it is touchy to say the least around max pressure.
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