is a bull barrel really needed
- Thread starter cocopuff
- Start date
I have a fluted Remington varmint contour barrel in .223 and it absorbs quite a few rounds/heat before it gets hot, and it sheds heat fairly quickly as well.
It will all depend on how fast and how many rounds in a row you will want to shoot without stopping. More barrel mass will absorb more heat, but it will also take that much longer to cool.
My intent is to build the "ideal" sage rat gun this spring. If rats are plentiful it means lots of shooting. So I'm going with a small caliber to reduce heat, 20 VarTarg, and either a heavy or light contour varmint benchrest barrel to absorb that heat. Would like to flute it but not sure it is worth the extra money. It will be cut short...20-22 inches long. It won't be light, but should be in the range that isn't a burden to carry.
It will all depend on how fast and how many rounds in a row you will want to shoot without stopping. More barrel mass will absorb more heat, but it will also take that much longer to cool.
My intent is to build the "ideal" sage rat gun this spring. If rats are plentiful it means lots of shooting. So I'm going with a small caliber to reduce heat, 20 VarTarg, and either a heavy or light contour varmint benchrest barrel to absorb that heat. Would like to flute it but not sure it is worth the extra money. It will be cut short...20-22 inches long. It won't be light, but should be in the range that isn't a burden to carry.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I have experienced accuracy (originally wrote velocity due to brain malfunction) loss when a factory sporter barrel was shot to too high of a heat, and found that it took more shots to get a varmint barrel to the same situation. I am not talking about very hot, just hotter than was consistent with the best accuracy. On the Vartarg, I have a friend who builds his own rifles in a large number of calibers, and he finds that his is very accurate, and more suitable for northern California, Oregon, and Nevada squirrel shooting than larger cased .20s given the high shot volume and average length of shots.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I made a mistake in my earlier post, that I have corrected. What I meant to say was that in my experience sporter weight barrels can show a drop off in accuracy as they warm up, and that the number of rounds that it takes to get to this point is greater in something like a varmint weight or heavier. With varmint weight barrels, I have never experienced loss of accuracy shooting five shot groups with some foulers thrown in.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I seem to remember an article in Precision Shooting on the subject of the increases of barrel cooling area afforded by various approaches, and if memory serves, the increase from a vary coarse sand blasted finish exceeded the gain from fluting....but it has been many years since I read the article so....
I appreciate all of your replies..I think some place there was a misunstanding and I see
some mention to a sporter barrel..Now correct me if i'm wrong,but isn't a sporter barrel
like that found on most hunting rifles?
When I mention varmint,I mean something like .800 at the muzzle...or there abouts...
My other bull barrels do get hot and take a long time to cool compared to some varmint
barrels I have seen used..
some mention to a sporter barrel..Now correct me if i'm wrong,but isn't a sporter barrel
like that found on most hunting rifles?
When I mention varmint,I mean something like .800 at the muzzle...or there abouts...
My other bull barrels do get hot and take a long time to cool compared to some varmint
barrels I have seen used..
mikecr said:
Fixed amount of thermal energy in, Fixed amount out. The bigger barrel has more surface area exposed to cooler fluid. Bigger barrel attains lower peak temp and conducts energy faster.( if the two have the same surface temp) The difference is the efficiency of thermal conductance. An analogy would be a sporter barrel cooling from 600f to 200f faster than the bull could cool from 250f to 150.
I'm a varmint and predator hunter and I have rifles with both a "bull" heavy contour barrels and ones with a sporter weight barrels.
The bull barrel rifle is a pain to carry, especially for an old fart like me. Since I shoot off shooting sticks, I've found that the weight of the bull barrel helps to stabilize the rifle and I shoot better with it off the sticks. Also, the increase stiffness probably contributes to the very tight groups I can obtain with these rifles, i.e some in the 1/4" moa range. Since the varmints I hunt are eastern groundhogs with shots spread out over time, barrel heat is not an issue so the bull barrel offers no advantage to me for that issue.
It's so much easier to carry my sporter weight barreled rifles. A few of them are capable of shooting varmint class groups, i.e. in the 1/2 moa range. The biggest problem I have with them is that the ones with synthetic stocks tend to torque to the right when I shoot them off the shooting sticks (cross sticks). To correct this, I hold the forearm with my left hand that I normally use hold the sticks. This eliminates the torque affect but I can't shoot as accurately using this type of hold.
There is no doubt that my heavy barrel rifles shoot tighter groups that even my best sporter weight rifles. For long range precision shooting, the heavies appear to have a distinct advantage. For hunts where I anticipate a lot of stalking and walking, the sporter weight work best for me as long as I limit my shots under 250 yards.
I think there are advantages to both for hunting depending on the application. If I was a target shooter I would definitely opt for the heavies for several reasons: reduced recoil, less potential to cant pulling trigger, more stability off the rest, and less heat build up.
The bull barrel rifle is a pain to carry, especially for an old fart like me. Since I shoot off shooting sticks, I've found that the weight of the bull barrel helps to stabilize the rifle and I shoot better with it off the sticks. Also, the increase stiffness probably contributes to the very tight groups I can obtain with these rifles, i.e some in the 1/4" moa range. Since the varmints I hunt are eastern groundhogs with shots spread out over time, barrel heat is not an issue so the bull barrel offers no advantage to me for that issue.
It's so much easier to carry my sporter weight barreled rifles. A few of them are capable of shooting varmint class groups, i.e. in the 1/2 moa range. The biggest problem I have with them is that the ones with synthetic stocks tend to torque to the right when I shoot them off the shooting sticks (cross sticks). To correct this, I hold the forearm with my left hand that I normally use hold the sticks. This eliminates the torque affect but I can't shoot as accurately using this type of hold.
There is no doubt that my heavy barrel rifles shoot tighter groups that even my best sporter weight rifles. For long range precision shooting, the heavies appear to have a distinct advantage. For hunts where I anticipate a lot of stalking and walking, the sporter weight work best for me as long as I limit my shots under 250 yards.
I think there are advantages to both for hunting depending on the application. If I was a target shooter I would definitely opt for the heavies for several reasons: reduced recoil, less potential to cant pulling trigger, more stability off the rest, and less heat build up.
i'm am sure it has been tested befor..From my own finding last year
the stainless bull size barrel took longer to heat up and a hellofa a lot
longer to cool down..
I don't have a lot of cashflow but I am going to try this test with a standard
chromemoly barrel...There is tons of information onchromemoly versus stainless..
Everyone has an opinion....So I am going to conduct my own test and see..
Most people only go by what others tell them or bu what they have read...
8)
the stainless bull size barrel took longer to heat up and a hellofa a lot
longer to cool down..
I don't have a lot of cashflow but I am going to try this test with a standard
chromemoly barrel...There is tons of information onchromemoly versus stainless..
Everyone has an opinion....So I am going to conduct my own test and see..
Most people only go by what others tell them or bu what they have read...
8)
Intuitively most think the heavier barrel will be more accurate, but reviewing the NBRSA and IBS records and match results prove this is not always true. The LV class rifle (similar in contour to a Rem. Varmint) often outperforms the heavier barreled rifles, HV and even Unlimited (Rail Gun - when comparing 5 shot aggs).cocopuff said:
Stay with the lighter barrel (they are easier to balance), use a mirage shield.
Find a load with a wide node that ambient temp has a minimal effect.....and practice in the wind.
now thats the most sinceable reply I have seen in a long time,,Looks like
a little research h gas been done into the answer,,Befor a deliberate rambling of bull
crap some one told someone else...These forums are full of valued information
as well and bull crap...Thank you sir for your reply..And tell me where do I find a mirage
shoeld....John my computer is so messed it..makes writting very hard..
a little research h gas been done into the answer,,Befor a deliberate rambling of bull
crap some one told someone else...These forums are full of valued information
as well and bull crap...Thank you sir for your reply..And tell me where do I find a mirage
shoeld....John my computer is so messed it..makes writting very hard..
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