Intro and 6mm BR Question

[NikatKimber]

Hello,

I have a Rem 700 in .243 Win, and a .243 AI barrel I'm installing soon, so it didn't take long to run into the 6mmbr.com website when searching for info. That led quickly to reading about the 6mm BR. So far I love what I'm reading.

As I'm reading about how it does 90% + of what the .243 does, with less recoil, I kept thinking it would make a truly AWESOME short to mid range hunting round for anything up to deer size critters. Especially great for young shooters, or anyone recoil sensitive. So not only do I have the hankering for a nice 6mm BR benchrest gun, but have this craving to build a lighter weight 20" 6mm BR for hunting with. So that leads to my question:

Why aren't there more 6mm BR sporters? Or *any* standard rifles chambered for it?

Is it the massive case of magnumitis? People just unaware of it? Or is it that there is already the .243 win that ammo is commonplace?

 

[AndyTaber]

The 6mmBR can be a bit finicky when trying to feed from a magazine because of the case shape. Manufacturers don't like finicky.

 

[jerrschmitt]

If it were named the 6MM BR Ultra short Magnum Speed Devil, it would sell like hotcakes and they would have figured out how to make it feed. It does make a nice single shot hunting round as it is.

 

[hogpatrol]

+1 on the finicky. Also, very limited factory made ammo available. Pretty much requires one to add in the time and expense of reloading.

 

[UltraBR30]

hogpatrol .... if any amount of shooting is done reloading can be far cheaper then buying ammo, let alone the accuracy gains.

 

[NikatKimber]

If it were named the 6MM BR Ultra short Magnum Speed Devil, it would sell like hotcakes and they would have figured out how to make it feed. It does make a nice single shot hunting round as it is.

LOL! Sounds about right!

On the feeding issues, how much worse could it be than the WSSM family? They are also very short fat cases like the 6BR.

How many here have 6BR sporters?

I was reading yesterday about someone who took a 243 Tikka and had the barrel cut and rechambered for 6BR, how feasible is this on typical rifles?

 

[hogpatrol]

hogpatrol .... if any amount of shooting is done reloading can be far cheaper then buying ammo, let alone the accuracy gains.

I agree, but the original question, <Why aren't there more 6mm BR sporters? Or *any* standard rifles chambered for it?> begs the questions for rifle manufacturers "Does the customer want to a: be a reloader, b: take the time and money to get set up to reload ammo, c: buy bullets, ammo, primers and powder in enough bulk to make it "cheaper" and d: have the time to reload & go to a range for load development?? I think readily available factory and/or milspec ammo is still a big factor in gun selection for everyday hunting and non-bench rest shooting. Add in the fact that there aren't any 6brs that sell south of a grand and you have the recipe of a limited demand caliber/firearm. As for me, I love 'em. I have three 6brs, two 14 twists, one with a 20 inch barrel and an 8 twist rebarrel job on the way. Hog

 

[bozo699]

[/quote]

LOL! Sounds about right!

On the feeding issues, how much worse could it be than the WSSM family? They are also very short fat cases like the 6BR.

How many here have 6BR sporters?

I was reading yesterday about someone who took a 243 Tikka and had the barrel cut and rechambered for 6BR, how feasible is this on typical rifles?
[/quote]
Nikatkimber,
Welcome to the forum. The Tikka has a inline center feed magazine which is why it feeds good, it will feed the 6br fine. If you were to buy a centerfeed inline magazine for your Remington it will also feed well.

hogpatrol .... if any amount of shooting is done reloading can be far cheaper then buying ammo, let alone the accuracy gains.

Ammo can be made better by hand loading, it can be custom tailored, but if your time is worth more then $.50 per hour and you buy quality components it is NOT cheaper. I spent two Longggg hard days prepping 200 virgin 6*284 rounds for a up coming match, cheap no, quality you won't get with factory ammo yes.
Wayne.

 

[UltraBR30]

6mmBR ammo is upwards of $40 per box of 20.
When I go PD hunting I want 250 to 500 rounds with ($500 to $1000 to buy it).
When I go to the range plinking steel, pretty easy to shoot 100 rounds a day. To buy it it would be $200 a trip for ammo.
Guess you guys have more money then time .......

 

[bozo699]

UltraBR30,
105 vld's $33 per/100,...6br brass $93 per/100,...CCI BR4 primers $5.25 per/100 so 100 rounds with components bought from Midway USA not including tax and shipping= $131.25, not including powder 131.25/100= about $1.31 X 20 = $26.25 per box. $40 for your factory ammo -$26.25= $13.75 $13.75 for at least 3 hours worth of work to make these 20 pieces of ammo match perfect, $13.75/3 = $4.58 per hour,...I was making more then that in 1980, so yes my time is worth something. However I believe you misunderstood my post, what I was trying to say is at the high price of quality components, the amount of time you have to spend away from work,family,ect,ect. making quality accurate ammo is anything but cheap, If your factory ammo is $40 per 20,.. I personally think it is closer to $52 per 20 but even at $52 per box I would gladly pay that if it was as accurate as my custom ammo because there is nothing glamorous about spending many many hours in the loading room away from the other things in life that means so much to us all Happy shooting to all.
Wayne

 

[hogpatrol]

bozo699, You hit the nail on the head, i.e. TIME spent. I would add in the hour I just used entering the data from two trips to the range in to my spreadsheet program. To me it is the biggest PITA of reloading but has to be done if one ever wants the proverbial one hole group. Bughole to all, Hog

 

[UltraBR30]

bozo699 - So what is my cost the next +10 times I reload that $93 brass?
And its obvious to me I reload much faster then you do.

 

[NikatKimber]

Sure, if you buy only by 100 count, and don't reload your brass at all, sure, reloading isn't as cost effective as it can be.

By my math, if you load for a quantity of 1000rds:

Reload the brass 10x (doable with Lapua), buy 500ct bullets, 1000ct primers, and powder from Powder Valley Inc, your cost would be $715 per 1000rds.

Compare that to the $2000 per 1000rds for factory ammo.

Consider that now you have a savings of $1.28 PER ROUND.

Again, if you can only load ~6-7rds per how, yeah, that's cheap time. But, once again, you should be loading in larger lots of 20 rounds.

I don't count my time usually, because I tend to load when I can't shoot, or would otherwise just be watching TV.

 

[fdshuster]

"Reload the brass 10X". Multiply that number by 4, if the proper techniques are followed. I have some Lapua 6BR cases that are now on their 43 rd. loading, and are trouble free. I've had Lapua 220 Russian/ 6ppc brass that outlasted the Krieger barrel.

 

[bozo699]

Fella's,
Your missing the point, I buy thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of reloading supplies each year, so I have a pretty good idea what the costs are, I buy very little factory compared to what I load, I bought about 10,000 rounds of ammo last year, if you shop at gun shows and what not you absolutely can not load it for what you can buy it for, high quality ammo is a different story, I think my .338-378 Weatherby magnum is over $150 per 20 for factory ammo, I definitely load for it, I highly recommend you to reload as well, HOWEVER I stand by my statement God only gave me so much time on this rock and each breath is very precious, so I definitely count my time on anything I do and HIGH QUALITY reloading is NOT CHEAP by any means!! I spend many many many hours trying to develop perfect ammo, year after year after year, barrel after barrel after barrel, making Joyce Hornady, Walt Berger, Vernon Speer, Sierra, Krieger,Hart, Sinclair, Midway USA and many other vendors rich in the process, now if you slop 100 rounds out in a hour then yes reloading is much cheaper, it takes me that long to clean the primer pockets and inspect the cases. I wish you all the very best and I will not comment on the subject further, Frank is right, if you have a good chamber your Lapua brass will out last some of your barrels for sure, I have 200 pieces of 6*284 Lapua I have 15 loadings on, it's getting close to the end but there hot loads, my 6br is on it's 35th reloading and my 6brx is about 12 now and hasn't even needed trimmed yet. Happy shooting to all ;D
Wayne.

 

[hogpatrol]

My .02: Original thread question before it morphed in to the pros & cons of reloading.

Quote: "Why aren't there more 6mm BR sporters? Or *any* standard rifles chambered for it?"

My opinion is the mass market, i.e varmint & big game hunters, will not support it when there are easier options.

As far as the pros & cons of reloading, I would surmise that topic needs its own thread.

Bugholes & dead varmints, Hog

 

[CatShooter]

If it were named the 6MM BR Ultra short Magnum Speed Devil, it would sell like hotcakes and they would have figured out how to make it feed. It does make a nice single shot hunting round as it is.

I don't think so - look at the WSSM line of cartridges - pretty much like the 6mmBR. They are a sales "dog". They don't feed well and there is no advantage to them unless you really need a 1" shorter action (very short right arm syndrome?).

The 6mmBR does what it does very well as a single shot rifle for bench and varmints... as a deer rifle, there are hundreds of better choices... that feed through a magazine with no problems.

 

[Frankr]

I agree with catshooter.
you dont see many 6BR sporters mostly because its marginal as a deer or medium size game cartridge.
there are some out there and i have wanted to build one as a walking varmit/short range deer round.
just never have.
in the hands of a skilled markaman at reasonbale ranges the 6BR will work for deer but so many better rounds out there.
Do you know when the .250 savage first came out with the super high velocity bullets , guys took it to alaska grizzly bear hunting but i dont know how many made it back.

 

[CatShooter]

Do you know when the .250 savage first came out with the super high velocity bullets , guys took it to Alaska grizzly bear hunting but i don't know how many made it back.

WOW... 3,000 feet per second - it must be able to kill bears

Those people still exist (or their children do )