Induction Annealing Results With Tempilaq

[Bidwell]

Cold working puts stress (energy) into the brass. The amount of cold work slightly raises how fast it anneals. People are making a big deal out of annealing. Annealing may not show improvement on the target, but it will increase case life. My rifles are for GH hunting and they easily shoot under 0.400" groups. I have shot a few groups in the 1s. Maybe 1 out of 25 groups is 0.250" or smaller. I cannot shoot consistantly small groups to tell if annealing helps group size or consistancy. I don't use wind flags. I don't measure true group size I have always measured vertical and horiziontal size. After shooting 1000s of groups I see a clear trend that my groups are 0.100" wider than tall. I assume it's wind.

Yeah I'm just looking to maintain accuracy and improve case life, that's all I care about. I'm still relatively new to shooting so I don't have super high accuracy standards. I have a Ruger American 308 and just starting to get fairly consistent 5-7 shot 1 moa and sub moa groups. My results with factory ammo was not great, only after hand loading did I start to really make progress

 

[MikeRu]

I put a small amount of Tempilaq 750 inside a clean case neck and anneal for about 8-10 sec total, stopping about 1-2 sec after the Tempilaq starts to change color. I had no luck waiting for red color, the necks got real soft. All you need is consistent neck seating pressures over multiple reloads, with no split necks . It’s a big target I think. Cartridgeanneal.com and see anneal-rite, using dual propane torches, aimed at mid shoulder and rock the case back and forth. I only put Tempilaq on every 10th case, for the others just match the time and color change. Don’t spend big money on this.

 

[Webster]

I put a small amount of Tempilaq 750 inside a clean case neck and anneal for about 8-10 sec total, stopping about 1-2 sec after the Tempilaq starts to change color. I had no luck waiting for red color, the necks got real soft. All you need is consistent neck seating pressures over multiple reloads, with no split necks . It’s a big target I think. Cartridgeanneal.com and see anneal-rite, using dual propane torches, aimed at mid shoulder and rock the case back and forth. I only put Tempilaq on every 10th case, for the others just match the time and color change. Don’t spend big money on this.

750F isn't hot enough to flash anneal. Don't see how you could make the necks too soft. I get red with a single propane torch in about 9 seconds, red is about 1050F. Doesn't make sense that you’re around 750F in 10 seconds. I get the necks red and they still have good hardness. How can you get 750F when I get 1050F in 9 seconds?

Heat till the necks get red for 1-2 seconds and stop. It doesn't matter what hardness you are getting. They are all done the same. None of the necks are getting soft. If you anneal much longer than red it's impossible to control the process. If you can consistently shoot groups around .200" or smaller maybe you could see a difference. There are about 10 things that determine accuracy and they are all jumbled together and contributing differently with each shot. If you want accuracy start with a quality barrel like Kreiger, Brux and few others. Most of my improvements came from bench skills.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I

The thinner works.
I have no idea what it is, probably just paint thinner or alcohol or something like that ..... but not sure.

When my thinner runs out, I will try mixing a small amount with some alcohol as a test

tried this and it didnt mix well, at least in my bottle of 750

 

[SeabeeKen]

I recall reading elsewhere that flash annealing isnt annealing at all but simply stress relieving. So far, I've had no issues with cracks when heating using 750 Templq. I will up it a bit to get more of the shoulder in the future. My only concern in more heat is burning out the zinc in the brass since zinc melts at about 787.1

The Artistic Beauty of Brass Annealing | Cartridge Anneal

Many precision shooters; benchrest, target, varmint & long-range hunters strive to make the most accurate reloaded ammunition possible. Proper brass

www.cartridgeanneal.com

 

[jthor]

1: Place the case in the coil where the neck shoulder junction is centered in the coil.
2: set your timing to where you get a dim red glow when the lights are off.
3: anneal your brass
4: throw out the templac.

 

[jthor]

I recall reading elsewhere that flash annealing isnt annealing at all but simply stress relieving. So far, I've had no issues with cracks when heating using 750 Templq. I will up it a bit to get more of the shoulder in the future. My only concern in more heat is burning out the zinc in the brass since zinc melts at about 787.1

The Artistic Beauty of Brass Annealing | Cartridge Anneal

Many precision shooters; benchrest, target, varmint & long-range hunters strive to make the most accurate reloaded ammunition possible. Proper brass

www.cartridgeanneal.com

It is annealing there are 3 stages of annealing: recovery, recrystallization, and grain growth. “Stress relief” is really in the first 2 steps and most of your “softening happens in the 3rd stage. AMP has covered this in their articles showing grain growth. Burning out zinc is irrelevant as it doesn’t behave like zinc after being mixed with copper to be brass. The same goes for using copper characteristics to describe brass, it’s not relevant with the alloy.

 

[SeabeeKen]

It is annealing there are 3 stages of annealing: recovery, recrystallization, and grain growth. “Stress relief” is really in the first 2 steps and most of your “softening happens in the 3rd stage. AMP has covered this in their articles showing grain growth. Burning out zinc is irrelevant as it doesn’t behave like zinc after being mixed with copper to be brass. The same goes for using copper characteristics to describe brass, it’s not relevant with the alloy.

It doesnt behave like zinc after its burned out of the copper either. I've seen overheated brass that is nothing but copper after cooling. It glows, then smokes, then zinc gone and left with copper necked case. Made that mistake when I started.

 

[jthor]

It doesnt behave like zinc after its burned out of the copper either. I've seen overheated brass that is nothing but copper after cooling. It glows, then smokes, then zinc gone and left with copper necked case. Made that mistake when I started.

Brass does a dim glow at 900F and you’re not burning out the zinc, I can guarantee that. Maybe closure to the melting point, but not at where brass starts to glow. The AMP will get the necks on brass at 900F+ and no one is burning out zinc.

Even with flame or induction annealing in factories you will seem them get a necks on brass to glow (where they calibrate their annealing machines using a Vickers tester). Primal Rights still uses his flame annealer and recommends the dull glow method.

At the very least at least no one here is recommending Salt Bath Annealing. I’m glad that died out.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I recall reading elsewhere that flash annealing isnt annealing at all but simply stress relieving. So far, I've had no issues with cracks when heating using 750 Templq. I will up it a bit to get more of the shoulder in the future. My only concern in more heat is burning out the zinc in the brass since zinc melts at about 787.1

The Artistic Beauty of Brass Annealing | Cartridge Anneal

Many precision shooters; benchrest, target, varmint & long-range hunters strive to make the most accurate reloaded ammunition possible. Proper brass

www.cartridgeanneal.com

The zinc can only be burnt out of the brass once it's liquified, that's the way the alloy works. So, for brass were talking about a temperature at 1700°F to do that. Going to 1,000°F isn't going to burn out any zink.

 

[Webster]

It doesnt behave like zinc after its burned out of the copper either. I've seen overheated brass that is nothing but copper after cooling. It glows, then smokes, then zinc gone and left with copper necked case. Made that mistake when I started.

Complete BS. You cannot burn the zinc out annealing.

 

[Sparky78]

I made one of those annealers as well. I stripped #12 sollid wire and made my own coils. Then i found all sorts of different diameter items like bolts sockets markers wooden dowel rods to wrap wire around. Played with number of wraps and space between wraps to dial in temperature control. Use feeler gauges for gaps and cut coil leads long. Trim shorter till it fits what i want. You may already be doing this buts its what has worked for me. I even made one to sterilize scalpel blades.

 

[Bidwell]

I made one of those annealers as well. I stripped #12 sollid wire and made my own coils. Then i found all sorts of different diameter items like bolts sockets markers wooden dowel rods to wrap wire around. Played with number of wraps and space between wraps to dial in temperature control. Use feeler gauges for gaps and cut coil leads long. Trim shorter till it fits what i want. You may already be doing this buts its what has worked for me. I even made one to sterilize scalpel blades.

Using the feeler gauge for coil spacing is a good idea. I used a 5/8 wood dowel and a AAA membership card 10 wraps of hollow, roughly 8 gauge, copper wire I got at auto zone is working pretty good, and got a water pump keeping the coil cool. That part actually works better than expected given how hot the coil gets. Operating frequency is about 130khz.

 

[Sparky78]

Using the feeler gauge for coil spacing is a good idea. I used a 5/8 wood dowel and a AAA membership card 10 wraps of hollow, roughly 8 gauge, copper wire I got at auto zone is working pretty good, and got a water pump keeping the coil cool. That part actually works better than expected given how hot the coil gets. Operating frequency is about 130khz.

Theres a video where a guy 3D printed an adapter for a 120v computer fan to attach on the back end to help cool things down. #12 solid will work better imho or give it a try. 5 wraps on a 308 case will anneal 223 cases in 1 sec. Use templac every 5 cases to keep an eye on process. Do you use a controller for on off times/ run delay

 

[Webster]

Theres a video where a guy 3D printed an adapter for a 120v computer fan to attach on the back end to help cool things down. #12 solid will work better imho or give it a try. 5 wraps on a 308 case will anneal 223 cases in 1 sec. Use templac every 5 cases to keep an eye on process. Do you use a controller for on off times/ run delay

What temp Templaq?

 

[Sparky78]

What temp Templaq?

750 degree F

 

[Bidwell]

Theres a video where a guy 3D printed an adapter for a 120v computer fan to attach on the back end to help cool things down. #12 solid will work better imho or give it a try. 5 wraps on a 308 case will anneal 223 cases in 1 sec. Use templac every 5 cases to keep an eye on process. Do you use a controller for on off times/ run delay

I'll give the 12 gauge a try! Thanks. I wouldn't mind having a fan for the electronics. They don't get very warm now, but if I process 50 cases it will probably start heating up.

Yeah using a cheap Amazon relay board. Right now, it powers the zvs board directly but I've considered getting a higher amperage relay that would be triggered by the timer instead. But, it's working well enough now so might not be necessary.

 

[Sparky78]

If I remember to take a pic of my contraption I built from a youtube video and some of my coils i have made.

 

[Sparky78]

I'll give the 12 gauge a try! Thanks. I wouldn't mind having a fan for the electronics. They don't get very warm now, but if I process 50 cases it will probably start heating up.

Yeah using a cheap Amazon relay board. Right now, it powers the zvs board directly but I've considered getting a higher amperage relay that would be triggered by the timer instead. But, it's working well enough now so might not be necessary.

 

[Webster]

Y

Theres a video where a guy 3D printed an adapter for a 120v computer fan to attach on the back end to help cool things down. #12 solid will work better imho or give it a try. 5 wraps on a 308 case will anneal 223 cases in 1 sec. Use templac every 5 cases to keep an eye on process. Do you use a controller for on off times/ run delay

You should be getting close to zero annealing at 750F for a fraction of a second.