inconistant accuracy

[English]

OK I will try to give as much detail as possable and hopefully get to the bottom of this problem
rifle spec
Nesika Hunter T action
Loather Walther super match grade barrel 10 twist
Robertson Stock
Jewel Trigger
Vias Brake
Caliber 7mm WSM min SAMMI spec,reamer made to my spec to shoot 140 gr bullets and feed from my magazine

OK the load is 69.7 of Reloader 19 Mag primer,Win brass,neck turned,trimmed ect ect,using Redding Comp neck sizing die allowing 3 thou of neck tension,using 140gr Sierra game king
the bullet is seated just off the lands.
in a nut shell I am getting flyers,any advice would be very helpfull

 

[BradY]

Get the crown checked mate

 

[yat3b35]

Is your rifle set up to be a tight neck chamber ? if not why are you turning your necks? IMHO 3 Thou is not enough neck tension for a hunting gun.Recoil can seat any bullets in the magazine deeper when you fire the rifle.Your load of 69.7gr of Re 19 is also 2.0 grains above what the Sierra lists as there max. charge. I would not turn the necks unless your smith told you to, unless it's just a skim coat to true them. I'd be asking my gunsmith these questions.

 

[Elkbane]

English,
My .02 - others may disagree. I haven't had good luck neck sizing the WSM's, and from reading a bit, it looks like the consensus is to F/L resize them every time. I have my two 300 WSM's set to 1.5thou shoulder bump each time. Before I had my dies set to bump the shoulders, I was getting fliers also, and never knew that my dies weren't bumping the shoulders until I started measuring cases. The dies were contacting the side walls, pushing the shoulder forward,by a varying amount), but weren't screwed in enough to bump back the shoulders. But I did notice that some cartridges seemed to chamber "stiffer" than others. Then I started measuring length to shoulder and ID'd the problem. I'd suggest you measure the cases with a Hornady headspace tool that clamps to your calipers. Take several cases and measure them - you may find a few thousands variation case to case if you are not F/L sizing,some pcs of brass spring back after firing more than others), and that could produce fliers. Also, have you checked concentricity on your loaded rounds? With my,Forster) F/L dies set up properly and the expander ball tuned, I'm getting <2 thou total indicated runout, measured 1/8 back from the bullet tip, which keeps groups in the .5-.75" range on sporter barrels. Before I was getting 2 touching, then another 1" out with no logical pattern to the fliers. If you are measuring runout, what kind of runout are you getting?
ELkbane

Pls report back.

 

[jo191145]

One more thought.

sierra bullets have some of the worst quality control I've yet seen. In match bullets anyway.
For instance in one box 6mm 95gn Matchkings I found bearing surface differences of up to .020" I found this after checking seating depths on loaded rds and finding variations up to .006" using a comparator.
Your seating depth of just off the lands might be to close of tolerances for the bullets your using. Some may be contacting the lands while others do not.
My first thought was a faulty seater plug but it seats Berger VLD's within .001"
I figure my Sierras were from two different dies.

If your using a Hornady COL guage you need to check the headspace of the cartridge guage and your rifles headspace and recompute.

I would FL size, back off the lands and start development over.
Did you try switching mag primers to a different brand?

 

[TheSilverFox]

Possible problems
- improper ID chamber to loaded round OD at "pressure ring" clearance?
- too much neck tension?
- why turn a no turn neck chamber?
- how do you measure land clearance?
- to much headspace or not enough?
- improper tuning procedure?
- shooting in wrong conditions?
- are you chamfering flasholes?
- are you uniforming primer pockets?
- what is your brass prep procedure?

 

[222Rem]

Just because you like the components you picked for your rifle..... Your rifle might not like the components you picked for it.

 

[English]

Is your rifle set up to be a tight neck chamber ? if not why are you turning your necks? IMHO 3 Thou is not enough neck tension for a hunting gun.Recoil can seat any bullets in the magazine deeper when you fire the rifle.Your load of 69.7gr of Re 19 is also 2.0 grains above what the Sierra lists as there max. charge. I would not turn the necks unless your smith told you to, unless it's just a skim coat to true them. I'd be asking my gunsmith these questions.

Hi
Iam only neck turning to clean the neck to get batter consistant neck wall thickness the chamber neck size is .319 and a loaded round is .313 to .312
as to the load of 69.7 we all know that publishes data id very conservitive chekcing loads form various sites I can run up to 71 gr,with this present load ima not seeing and pressure no sticky bolt and the fires brass re chambers with ease

 

[rogn]

Im finding that the RE powders esp Re19 I can max out 3 gr under the printed manuals. Dont get complacent with these powders and thing the data is all that conservative. Faces eyes fingers and guns are nice to keep in proper operating condition. rogn

 

[English]

Im finding that the RE powders esp Re19 I can max out 3 gr under the printed manuals. Dont get complacent with these powders and thing the data is all that conservative. Faces eyes fingers and guns are nice to keep in proper operating condition. rogn

I have found all published load data is way way down on what you can actually use,I suspose they have to really incase someone does blow there rifle up.
I have found the rifle will let you know when your up to maximum.

 

[English]

English,
My .02 - others may disagree. I haven't had good luck neck sizing the WSM's, and from reading a bit, it looks like the consensus is to F/L resize them every time. I have my two 300 WSM's set to 1.5thou shoulder bump each time. Before I had my dies set to bump the shoulders, I was getting fliers also, and never knew that my dies weren't bumping the shoulders until I started measuring cases. The dies were contacting the side walls, pushing the shoulder forward,by a varying amount), but weren't screwed in enough to bump back the shoulders. But I did notice that some cartridges seemed to chamber "stiffer" than others. Then I started measuring length to shoulder and ID'd the problem. I'd suggest you measure the cases with a Hornady headspace tool that clamps to your calipers. Take several cases and measure them - you may find a few thousands variation case to case if you are not F/L sizing,some pcs of brass spring back after firing more than others), and that could produce fliers. Also, have you checked concentricity on your loaded rounds? With my,Forster) F/L dies set up properly and the expander ball tuned, I'm getting <2 thou total indicated runout, measured 1/8 back from the bullet tip, which keeps groups in the .5-.75" range on sporter barrels. Before I was getting 2 touching, then another 1" out with no logical pattern to the fliers. If you are measuring runout, what kind of runout are you getting?
ELkbane

Pls report back.

a once fired peice of brass re chambers in my rifle without any effort,I do have a redding shoulder bumping die and i have knocked back all by brass,
the brass i have been using is brand new un fired and still getting flyers,I havnt measured the bullet run out yet,at present iam using a RCBS comp seating die,the one with the interchangable slides to suit each bullet size,I didnt have one for the WSM and they dont make a slide so i had to modify one to suit on the lathe
Iam really stuggling to find load data as it all seems to be up in the air,Sierra say 67.7 with a 140 bullet is max,in my rifle i have gone up to 69.7 with no problems
maybe I just drop back and start again

 

[expiper]

Why drop bak and start over??? you are allready to 69.7 gr!! You need to find the top,max, load ....then you will know your limit and stay below IT>>>...Usually aprox 1/2 gr below max is a good place to try ....the powder burns better at full steam...not runnin with the choke pulled.....the manuals are great...but as someone said ...very conservative in these modern times when every one is "Philidalphia Lawyer"...
We can give info till the cows come home but your particular bbl.- bullet-powdr-primer will tell you what is working in your gun....that is the complexity and the beauty of it all....sorta like asking for advice on the honeymoon...just jump in and you will see what works!! Roger

 

[glo]

I’d have to agree with both Elkbane and jo191145.
My understanding of all the new super short magnums is that the walls are just as thick as their full length magnum parents,approximately .040” at the web). When you shorten them keeping the thick walls they become very stiff little cartridges. If the brass is not very uniform when drawn you will get uneven spring back. Then when you neck them after down for there second firing you essentially have a hand full of different cartridges. Now add the fact you are using game king bullets instead of matchking bullets and walla… flyer city.

I have found that turning necks have always improved my accuracy in any rifle. Next is a better bullet. If you want to shoot cheap and semi accurate bullets use Hornady A-Max’s after that get the Sierra Matchking bullets. But if you want the full potential of the rig and case preparation to shin through, then get Berger Bullets. Hunting bullets,gamekings)will assure you Minuet of Moose accuracy.

 

[English]

I’d have to agree with both Elkbane and jo191145.
My understanding of all the new super short magnums is that the walls are just as thick as their full length magnum parents,approximately .040” at the web). When you shorten them keeping the thick walls they become very stiff little cartridges. If the brass is not very uniform when drawn you will get uneven spring back. Then when you neck them after down for there second firing you essentially have a hand full of different cartridges. Now add the fact you are using game king bullets instead of matchking bullets and walla… flyer city.

I have found that turning necks have always improved my accuracy in any rifle. Next is a better bullet. If you want to shoot cheap and semi accurate bullets use Hornady A-Max’s after that get the Sierra Matchking bullets. But if you want the full potential of the rig and case preparation to shin through, then get Berger Bullets. Hunting bullets,gamekings)will assure you Minuet of Moose accuracy.

I dont mind using premium bullets in Africa I use Barns TSX,problem is over here in the Uk we have rules to what typr of bullet we can legaly use on game,it has to be section 5 expanding
hence the game king,I use Bergers in my Nesika 243 AI for a long range foxing rifle
the 7mm is purely a deer rifle hence the use of an expanding bullet,
I will check the cases and see what i come up with,I have 50 now all once fired

 

[glo]

Hay English,
can you use Nosler Ballistic Tips. They are about the most accurate hunting bullets using traditional bullet construction, less the poly tip?

 

[English]

Hay English,
can you use Nosler Ballistic Tips. They are about the most accurate hunting bullets using traditional bullet construction, less the poly tip?

yes there fine also the partition are legal I may try a box

 

[English]

well I tried a box of Nosler 140gr BT,using 70.3 of RL19,just enough to stop tight bolt when rechambering a once fired case)
set the bullet to magazine length and then load a few testers in 10 thou jumps
seing the condition when horrid having to test in a strong wind and frezzing temps,no not nice over here st the moment)the rifle shot the best yet,I would say .5 at 100 yards,I was going to post a photo but a bit late now.
so after nearly 100 shitty Sierra bullets down my brand new match grade tube,9 shots with the Noslers produced a nice group which i can go hunting with next week in Scotland.
All thats left to do is set the drops on my Swarovski Z6i scope out to 400 yards
happy days,by the way the Sierra ended up in the scrap bin

 

[BeerHunter]

Pete,

Good luck with this.
Surprisingly it looks like custom jobs don't always guarantee accuracy every time!

Kev.

 

[English]

Pete,

Good luck with this.
Surprisingly it looks like custom jobs don't always guarantee accuracy every time!

Kev.

Thank you,seems the WSM family does take a little working out,and not just mine,my mates 270 wsm wont shoot Sierras either,
accuracy was never the problem,inconsistancy was,just goes to show the difference in quality bullets.
unfortunatly I have found i need to change bullets again as my recent trip to Inverness ,past your place was going to call in for tea)the meat damage was far too much with the Nosler BT.
At 445 yards not a problem,longest shot taken) but at 100 to 150 yards it was like a bomb had hit it,I ended up using my 243 AI still dropping reds at 385 yards
Berger have just bought out a new 140 gr hunting bullet,proper section 5) for the 7mm I have a box on order to try

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

Same luck here with my WSM. Took me a good bit of shooting to find the rifles "sweet spot". I can say that it likes scenars better than match kings, fwiw. Good luck.