In search of new precision reloading press

[Dave M.]

Hi all,
As the title says, I’m in the market for a new single stage press in order to make a step towards producing the most accurate ammo possible. Currently, I’m reloading for 6 Dasher, 6.5CM and .308 in my competition rifles. We are shooting F-Open class 600 and 1000 yards (scored 941/1000 in my last 1000 yard competition). Now I’m full length sizing using Whidden gunworks bushing dies, running a 21st century mandrel die to control neck tension and seating with the Whidden competition micrometer die. I’m still using the very first I started reloading on 12+ years ago, it’s a Hornady L-n-L Classic (cam over design). I’ve been told by several very experienced champion shooters and seasoned reloaders, that the cam-over design of my current press isn’t likely helping me to produce the most consistent ammo, round to round. I’m looking for suggestions on what I should be considering for a new presses and why.
Your advice, guidance and experience will be very much appreciated. I’m NOT interested in increasing throughput or any progressive presses. I AM interested solely in what press will give me the best chance to produce rock solid repeatability from round to round.

thanks for your time and thoughtful responses,
Dave M.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Hi all,
As the title says, I’m in the market for a new single stage press in order to make a step towards producing the most accurate ammo possible. Currently, I’m reloading for 6 Dasher, 6.5CM and .308 in my competition rifles. We are shooting F-Open class 600 and 1000 yards (scored 941/1000 in my last 1000 yard competition). Now I’m full length sizing using Whidden gunworks bushing dies, running a 21st century mandrel die to control neck tension and seating with the Whidden competition micrometer die. I’m still using the very first I started reloading on 12+ years ago, it’s a Hornady L-n-L Classic (cam over design). I’ve been told by several very experienced champion shooters and seasoned reloaders, that the cam-over design of my current press isn’t likely helping me to produce the most consistent ammo, round to round. I’m looking for suggestions on what I should be considering for a new presses and why.
Your advice, guidance and experience will be very much appreciated. I’m NOT interested in increasing throughput or any progressive presses. I AM interested solely in what press will give me the best chance to produce rock solid repeatability from round to round.

thanks for your time and thoughtful responses,
Dave M.

Frankly, I don't think you can do much better that the Forster Co-Ax. They're so popular, they're hard to find availability.

Some that I'd consider better would be the likes this made in Germany, if you don't mind Mercedes prices . . . here:

Or one made in Italy: https://upgradeyourrifle.com/gb/cleaning-and-reloading/453-pressa-per-ricarica-talon-advanced.html

Maybe some comparisons that Ultimate Reloader did would help you decide???

 

[venatic]

The first thought I had was...... do you have tools to measure runout and bullet ogive to base length to see how consistent your ammo is using the machine you currently have.

 

[Dave M.]

The first thought I had was...... do you have tools to measure runout and bullet ogive to base length to see how consistent your ammo is using the machine you currently have.

I do. I’m controlling CBTO within +/-0.0005” now, so I’m definitely good there. And I’m using the Accuracy One (I think that is the name) runout gauge to check brass at various stages of reloading and after seating. Most of my brass is has a TIR of 0.0005” on the neck and shoulder after shooting, but it varies from dead nuts perfect to as much as 5 thou TIR after sizing. The TIR of the bullet at the ogive can be anywhere from 0-7 thou.

 

[Dave M.]

Frankly, I don't think you can do much better that the Forster Co-Ax. They're so popular, they're hard to find availability.

Some that I'd consider better would be the likes this made in Germany, if you don't mind Mercedes prices . . . here:

Or one made in Italy: https://upgradeyourrifle.com/gb/cleaning-and-reloading/453-pressa-per-ricarica-talon-advanced.html

Maybe some comparisons that Ultimate Reloader did would help you decide???

Is the Co-Ax a hard stop press? Or a cam over??

 

[David Christian]

Just my opinion, but the LnL works just fine (I own one) and a replacement would be way down on my list for precision reloading improvement versus other items that have shown to produce excellent results for me (best components, neck tension, annealing, seating test, wind reading…)

Press: If I F/L size a box of brass, I would measure my ES in size (base to datum). This would indicate an issue with the press or my process, or prove the LnL works just fine.

Data: I use a chrono to measure my speeds over as many relays as possible? If my ES is close or below 20 for a 20 shot string all is good. If not, I might have a load issue or brass issue?

Tell us more and maybe we can help you evaluate a different part of your process.

Respectfully,
DC

 

[1bamashooter]

What you have works fine. I use a Harrells press and like it a lot

 

[R.Morehouse]

I suggest trying your sizing die in a friends press that is getting acceptable results and see how it goes. I personally use 2 discontinued presses ( R.F.D. & Hollywood Senior ) with custom dies made off the reamer with good results. I can put the same dies in my Rockchucker and the results are the same.

Regards
Rick

 

[JimSC]

your case prep is what will determine repeatability and accuracy and it sounds like you are already there. The press just moves the prepped cases in and out of the dies similar to a cold forging operation. Other than the snob factor any press will do the trick

 

[Stray8]

Hood and harrells combo presses are great and most clamp on so you could take it to the range with you. Area 419 Zero press is the new hotness but the price is much more than others. Apparently the tolerances are crazy, so it must take a while to make.

 

[Mulligan]

Hi all,
As the title says, I’m in the market for a new single stage press in order to make a step towards producing the most accurate ammo possible. Currently, I’m reloading for 6 Dasher, 6.5CM and .308 in my competition rifles. We are shooting F-Open class 600 and 1000 yards (scored 941/1000 in my last 1000 yard competition). Now I’m full length sizing using Whidden gunworks bushing dies, running a 21st century mandrel die to control neck tension and seating with the Whidden competition micrometer die. I’m still using the very first I started reloading on 12+ years ago, it’s a Hornady L-n-L Classic (cam over design). I’ve been told by several very experienced champion shooters and seasoned reloaders, that the cam-over design of my current press isn’t likely helping me to produce the most consistent ammo, round to round. I’m looking for suggestions on what I should be considering for a new presses and why.
Your advice, guidance and experience will be very much appreciated. I’m NOT interested in increasing throughput or any progressive presses. I AM interested solely in what press will give me the best chance to produce rock solid repeatability from round to round.

thanks for your time and thoughtful responses,
Dave M.

Dave,
Contact John G @big john 5394, on this forum.
I had a chance to visit with him at a match in MO earlier this year. From the conversation, I believe John has tried, tested, and measured all things press related. His shooting ability would indicate, he is on to something.
CW

 

[p5200]

Frankly, I don't think you can do much better that the Forster Co-Ax. They're so popular, they're hard to find availability.

Some that I'd consider better would be the likes this made in Germany, if you don't mind Mercedes prices . . . here:

Or one made in Italy: https://upgradeyourrifle.com/gb/cleaning-and-reloading/453-pressa-per-ricarica-talon-advanced.html

Maybe some comparisons that Ultimate Reloader did would help you decide???

I've had really good results with my Coax but, I don't load for nor do I shoot competition!

 

[dcali]

An RCBS Partner (or your Hornady) will do the job just fine. I use a Partner to load BR and F Class at the range. Don't ovethink the press.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Upgrading your press (unless something is *really* wrong with your current one) will not gain you any additional points at your next match.

Your post would indicate you feel like your ammo isn't as consistent as it could be; what makes you say that? How is it not consistent?

 

[Retired Grunt]

So far I have only shot Mid Range 500 yards, My improvement started showing up when I started using the 120 FXI and an Arbor Press. Maybe I am also reading the wind and shooting better too.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I do. I’m controlling CBTO within +/-0.0005” now, so I’m definitely good there. And I’m using the Accuracy One (I think that is the name) runout gauge to check brass at various stages of reloading and after seating. Most of my brass is has a TIR of 0.0005” on the neck and shoulder after shooting, but it varies from dead nuts perfect to as much as 5 thou TIR after sizing. The TIR of the bullet at the ogive can be anywhere from 0-7 thou.

The dies you're using are excellent. You're experience of getting .005 TIR after sizing is in line with my experience in using bushing dies, though I would have expected better from a Whidden die. When I went to a non-bushing die (like I now use a Forster FL sizing die without the expander ball), the runout was the same as what you see on fired brass before sizing. Then when I run a mandrel through it for me neck tension, I would get runout up to ~.0025 TIR. The Forster FL sizing die was necking down my .308 case to .006 below where I wanted my neck tension and would run my mandred to get there. To get better results, I had Forster hone the die out so that my mandrel only had to expand the neck .002 and that got my consentricity way better to ~.001 TIR, which also helped a lot with bullet runout too. While your press may be a factor, it seems more likely to me that it's your bushing die that's more your problem for that kind of TIR. . .???

Is the Co-Ax a hard stop press? Or a cam over??

The Co-Ax has a hard stop. However, dies can be set up on it to produce some cam over before the stop (typically not recommended). I use this press hard stop even for seating primers to get consistent primer seating depths of < +/- .001.

 

[Dave M.]

Dave,
Contact John G @big john 5394, on this forum.
I had a chance to visit with him at a match in MO earlier this year. From the conversation, I believe John has tried, tested, and measured all things press related. His shooting ability would indicate, he is on to something.
CW

Awesome info. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[mgunderson]

Not sure I am in full agreement with the new press idea and not sure what you are trying to fix. All of you numbers are better than average. I like the cam over for sizing. You know it is there and it doesn't change.

Try an arbor press for fun and some Wilson dies.

I have bought and sold 5 or 6 presses in the last few years and none of them are magic. Learned something from each one.

 

[Dave M.]

Just my opinion, but the LnL works just fine (I own one) and a replacement would be way down on my list for precision reloading improvement versus other items that have shown to produce excellent results for me (best components, neck tension, annealing, seating test, wind reading…)

Press: If I F/L size a box of brass, I would measure my ES in size (base to datum). This would indicate an issue with the press or my process, or prove the LnL works just fine.

Data: I use a chrono to measure my speeds over as many relays as possible? If my ES is close or below 20 for a 20 shot string all is good. If not, I might have a load issue or brass issue?

Tell us more and maybe we can help you evaluate a different part of your process.

Respectfully,
DC

I waiting for my new A&D FX120i with autothrow and autotrickler to arrive in the next 1-2 months. I recently purchased a new Labradar and because of back surgery I haven’t had it to the range yet (I’m hoping within the next 3-4 weeks to get it out to the range. I’m induction annealling after each firing and I’m only shooting Lapua brass and either Berger 105gr or 109gr hybrid target (just got the 109’s and haven’t even shot them yet). I hated my old Chrony because it would occasionally turn a tiny bit while shooting and then the relationship to velocity was lost. I’m excited to use to Labradar for the first time. I’ve used HBN bullets in the 308 and 6.5CM But never in the 6 Dasher. Only thing I’ve noticed is that it is so much easier to clean, no improvement in scoring or accuracy. I’ve tried neck tension as low as a half thou and as high as 3.5 thou, but I generally shoot at 2 thou because that is where I get the best results. I conducted a bullet seating test from +0.020” (jammed) thru -0.090” and the results steered me to running +0.004 (jam). I’m in Michigan so wind isn’t nearly what some guys on here deal with.

Dave

 

[Dave M.]

The dies you're using are excellent. You're experience of getting .005 TIR after sizing is in line with my experience in using bushing dies, though I would have expected better from a Whidden die. When I went to a non-bushing die (like I now use a Forster FL sizing die without the expander ball), the runout was the same as what you see on fired brass before sizing. Then when I run a mandrel through it for me neck tension, I would get runout up to ~.0025 TIR. The Forster FL sizing die was necking down my .308 case to .006 below where I wanted my neck tension and would run my mandred to get there. To get better results, I had Forster hone the die out so that my mandrel only had to expand the neck .002 and that got my consentricity way better to ~.001 TIR, which also helped a lot with bullet runout too. While your press may be a factor, it seems more likely to me that it's your bushing die that's more your problem for that kind of TIR. . .???


The Co-Ax has a hard stop. However, dies can be set up on it to produce some cam over (typically not recommended). I use this press hard stop even for seating primers to get consistent primer seating depths of < +/- .001.

I really like the co-ax but a few shooters I know told me it may be more internet hype then actual ease of use like other have. I do like it though.