Improvements for 2019 Fclass Nationals
- Thread starter Cody Richardson
- Start date
DE-F-Open
Gold $$ Contributor
Walt is correct - The Whittington Center is actually "owned" by the Special Contribution Fund and is not actually the property of the NRA - yes, it is closely affiliated with NRA, and, yes, it is known as the NRA Whittington Center - but it has the permission of NRA to use the NRA's name as a part of its name. The daily fees are set, assessed and collected by the Whittington Center (The Special Contribution Fund) not the NRA. NRA has no actual control over the Special Contribution Fund in such matters and when NRA holds a tournament of any kind, at any level in any sport at the Whittington Center it also pays the same per day/per shooter fees.
NRA may be guilty of many other things, but this isn't one of them.
John
Jetjock1,
Thanks for posting the HP Committee agenda. Not to change the subject of this thread, but I was disappointed to see 600 yard repair centers not on the agenda. I have been begging the NRA to approve smaller repair centers. I was told it was on the agenda a year or two ago, but tabled because two options were proposed and they couldn't decide. I don't understand why any option that meets the specs can't be approved. At our range, in the 9 or so years I've been shooting F-Class, I have never seen an 8-ring shot out, much less the 6 or 7 rings, yet we replace them every time. I would say a 14" to 16" square repairs center is more then adequate. Sorry for the rant, and high jacking the thread.
Thanks for posting the HP Committee agenda. Not to change the subject of this thread, but I was disappointed to see 600 yard repair centers not on the agenda. I have been begging the NRA to approve smaller repair centers. I was told it was on the agenda a year or two ago, but tabled because two options were proposed and they couldn't decide. I don't understand why any option that meets the specs can't be approved. At our range, in the 9 or so years I've been shooting F-Class, I have never seen an 8-ring shot out, much less the 6 or 7 rings, yet we replace them every time. I would say a 14" to 16" square repairs center is more then adequate. Sorry for the rant, and high jacking the thread.
Thanks for reminding me about the centers. We passed that 2 years ago but somehow the comp rules committee minutes didn't reflect that andsoit never got changed in th e rules. I will put it on the agenda
Jetjock
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Let me make a suggestion. Someone take the bull by the horns and write a letter to the president or match director of the Bald Eagles. Tell them what a great job they did on the match and then politely make some suggestions (shiraz's list) on desired improvements. Most of the suggestions pertain to match program or procedures. One item I think Shiraz missed was where you guys want the trophies for the awards and pictures. Here is a great company for medallions. I have had some made there and they are great at customer service. www.pinsbydesign.com
Jetjock
Jetjock
Let me add to what Matt said just for edification. The NRA board of directors elects the directors to the Whittington center. The WHitington corporation is a subsidiary corporation of the NRA that is why they elect the directors. The NRA does not subsidize the center. The center raises their own money.
As far as the $15.00/day we have been in negotiation for a couple of years on paying that for NRA competition but have not been successful yet. We will continue to push forward.
Who is Tom Layou and Jonathon Storment? I am guessing they have Fclass background? HP committee is for XTC, prone and fclass, correct? Shouldn’t the committee be of active participants in those events? I get Maurer and Ward, Denise and Ray have shot all the events too.
Xtc is dying the fastest, mostly because of poor timing related to
Matches held at Camp
Perry. Shooters need to be able to compete at both venues, or attendance for atterbury will continue to wain..... adding unknown distance to a known distance sport seems to be a strange choice. Just an opinion
mgdietrich
No, not f-class background. I am one of the very few who has shot every US National F-Class Championship, numerous state and regional championships as well as three world F-Class Championships. I've never heard of them.
They might be the greatest at their disciplines but I agree we should be represented by active participants in our events. I'd go farther and say we should be represented by a vote of participants in each discipline. Not just those the NRA deems worthy.
Since this tread is about F-Class, as an F-Class shooter, I want to see people like Monte Milanuk, Joe Meyer or Jeff Rorer appointed to the highpower committee. People I believe will serve the best interests of my discipline.
Jeff Cochran
NRA Life member
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Agree with all of this. I recognize Denise and Ray as active competitive shooters, does anyone else on the list currently shoot HP or F-class? If not, how does everyone get on the committee?
Adding a UKD event will not increase participation in HP as a sport, or even the Nationals. It might get a few HP shooters that were already there anyways, and it might draw some UKD/PRS type shooters to come out for that match. I guarantee that any UKD/PRS shooters that drive out to Camp Atterbury to shoot in a UKD match are not going to then say to their buddies; “Hey, do you guys want to stick around and shoot this NRA Highpower Championship thing since we are already here? It’s completely different from everything we enjoy doing, and we don’t have any of the gear to do it, but let’s do it anyways!”
That is just not going to happen. You may as well put 2 days of Frisbee Golf in the middle of the calendar and then hope that the Frisbee Golfers gang around to shoot HP. Also, PRS shooters have no use for the NRA in their shooting events. They manage their own sport and are very successful at it. Based on the last 5 or so years of NRA competitions, it would seem that all the NRA could offer would be to make it worse for them and take some of their money.
Please focus on improving/saving the sports that you are already in charge of before taking on any new ones. A great many of the people that are already active in our sport (at least on the sling side) are utterly disgusted with NRA competitions. Fix that problem first, or divest yourselves of the program and let someone else handle it.
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Frustrated with the NRA not being able to post National Records in a timely manner. Records shot at the Texas State Rifle Associations, Long Range State Championship back in April have still not been posted. It should not take 6 to 8 months to post a record. How many National Records are shot every month? Meanwhile those who shot a record can wonder if the record will stand or if someone indeed shot a better record before the potential record was recorded.
As a club we send the NRA $5.50 per competitor for each match and have on average 60 to 80 shooters per month between all the matches we sponsor.
It also seems that the Match Director should be able to input the match results on line. As a match director I have to format the results and submit them to be manually entered. That step could be eliminated and the necessary software would be simple and relatively cheap.
Alexander-M
Gold $$ Contributor
Cody,
Do not be discouraged; remember that “The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.”
You meant well to bring the need for improvement, and I believe that this will happen.
Shiraz wrote, in part:
2) Do NOT give out cash for prizes. Cash stays only temporarily in your pocket. We spend far more on components than to worry about fifty bucks or so.
The older you get, the more you realize how true this is!
I remember winning an NRA pistol match (.45, .38. .22) 43 years ago, in 1975, and having the option of receiving $10 (about $50 today) or a trophy. I opted for the $10, and have regretted that decision for the past 42 years.
Not only use the cash for better awards, but perhaps for a few more medals? I would love to be able to show my children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren a few more medals for some of the matches in which I did well enough to receive some cash, but not a medal. Yes, I understand that giving out cash is easier than procuring medals to give, but I think the effort would be highly appreciated.
Just my 2¢
Alex
Do not be discouraged; remember that “The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.”
You meant well to bring the need for improvement, and I believe that this will happen.
Shiraz wrote, in part:
2) Do NOT give out cash for prizes. Cash stays only temporarily in your pocket. We spend far more on components than to worry about fifty bucks or so.
The older you get, the more you realize how true this is!
I remember winning an NRA pistol match (.45, .38. .22) 43 years ago, in 1975, and having the option of receiving $10 (about $50 today) or a trophy. I opted for the $10, and have regretted that decision for the past 42 years.
Not only use the cash for better awards, but perhaps for a few more medals? I would love to be able to show my children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren a few more medals for some of the matches in which I did well enough to receive some cash, but not a medal. Yes, I understand that giving out cash is easier than procuring medals to give, but I think the effort would be highly appreciated.
Just my 2¢
Alex
Larry
Right now the recommendation is a mandatory 7 sec delay and any shot fired during the 7 sec will be score a miss.
Walt
Out of curiosity, since I shot smallbore and highpower silhouette nationals at the Whittington center...I'm new to competitive shooting so have nothing to compare it to.
1 - how much was each match? Was it an increase over years past? This was an issue at the silhoutte matches.
2 - did prize winners have to fill out tax forms? No cash at silhouette, but a prize/door prize table.
Mostly just wondering about the cost of y'alls match since it seemed to be quite an issue at the competitor's meeting for silhouette...
I thought silhouette nationals was a good match, but again, nothing to compare it to and the feedback seemed mixed for those who had shot at ridgeway prior.
1 - how much was each match? Was it an increase over years past? This was an issue at the silhoutte matches.
2 - did prize winners have to fill out tax forms? No cash at silhouette, but a prize/door prize table.
Mostly just wondering about the cost of y'alls match since it seemed to be quite an issue at the competitor's meeting for silhouette...
I thought silhouette nationals was a good match, but again, nothing to compare it to and the feedback seemed mixed for those who had shot at ridgeway prior.
Alex, no discouragement here! I knew it was going to be a sensitive subject but it sounds like some good conversations have come from it. Hopefully more good dialogue will come and we can work with the committee to improve our sport.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Regardless of whom sits on the committee, or what discipline they shoot, none of it means very much when the topics are chosen and discussed and the vast majority of participants may not be aware of what is actually going on.
I appreciate and applaud Walt's (Jetjock1) publicizing the agenda for the upcoming meeting. This is the first time I have ever seen such an agenda of the list of committee members posted publicly in many years of shooting. I think that having a direct liaison between the committee members that actually makes the rules and the participants is essential. Such a liaison would allow for better communication between the committee members and the participants, so that they could provide input on areas within the rules that they deem important, not just indirectly via their representative members on the committee. This is particularly true for F-Class, which would appear to be somewhat under-represented on the committee in terms of numbers.
It seems to me that many of the members of a well-known precision shooting forum such as Accurate Shooter are already participants in Highpower, so this forum would be a great place for a liaison to communicate directly with the participants of the sport. I'd really like to know more on a regular basis about what is going on with regard to the committee's efforts toward modifying the existing rules, or making new ones. You could certainly make the argument that the members of the committee should already function as liaisons. However, I would counter that argument by re-stating that this is the first time I have ever seen a meeting agenda or an actual list of the committee members posted publicly. If we don't know who they are or what they're discussing, it's almost impossible to to communicate in either direction.
What say the rest of you? Do you think a direct liaison to the committee through which we could impart/receive information here at A.S. would be beneficial?
I appreciate and applaud Walt's (Jetjock1) publicizing the agenda for the upcoming meeting. This is the first time I have ever seen such an agenda of the list of committee members posted publicly in many years of shooting. I think that having a direct liaison between the committee members that actually makes the rules and the participants is essential. Such a liaison would allow for better communication between the committee members and the participants, so that they could provide input on areas within the rules that they deem important, not just indirectly via their representative members on the committee. This is particularly true for F-Class, which would appear to be somewhat under-represented on the committee in terms of numbers.
It seems to me that many of the members of a well-known precision shooting forum such as Accurate Shooter are already participants in Highpower, so this forum would be a great place for a liaison to communicate directly with the participants of the sport. I'd really like to know more on a regular basis about what is going on with regard to the committee's efforts toward modifying the existing rules, or making new ones. You could certainly make the argument that the members of the committee should already function as liaisons. However, I would counter that argument by re-stating that this is the first time I have ever seen a meeting agenda or an actual list of the committee members posted publicly. If we don't know who they are or what they're discussing, it's almost impossible to to communicate in either direction.
What say the rest of you? Do you think a direct liaison to the committee through which we could impart/receive information here at A.S. would be beneficial?
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100% agree with this. I’m not saying the committee is not already doing this but they should be a voice for the majority. Serving to improve what us as shooters want. Having an open dialogue with the committee members and shooters here would be a GREAT tool
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
FWIW - I wasn't implying any intent on the part of committee members to keep the agenda a secret. I apologize if my comment came across that way and I edited the previous post to reflect that. However, it may not be realistic for the majority of members that might wish to attend to do so. As I mentioned, this is the first time I have ever seen such an agenda posted in a public forum, or even been aware in advance when a meeting was to be held. I acknowledge that that could be considered as much my own fault as any other reason. Nonetheless, I still think a liaison of some sort would be beneficial to better facilitate the transfer of information in both directions.
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