IBS Rimfire 50 and 100 yard

[linekin]

I've tried emailing National Target for some 100yd targets to no response. Saw on the IBS site in the news section that they'll be $54 per 100 which is understandable due to their size but ouch!! They're gonna be pricey to ship too.

 

[USMCDOC]

Very interesting. no mechanical rear rest and all have to be sandbag for custom and factory class.
I am a little confused on UL rest allowed.
Rests: 48 1. Unlimited Class 49 a.
Any rest, including one-piece rests, may be used as long as they are not fastened in any way to the bench. A vertical spacer under the rest will be allowed as long it contains no adjustments for windage or elevation. The vertical spacer shall not contain any protrusions, which can be inserted into the bench top or sandbag that sits upon it. Any Bipod may be used in place of the front rest. A rail may be added to the stock solely for the purpose of attaching a bipod. If the rail is wider than a standard picatinny rail (~1”) it must be removed if not using a bipod.

Why would a wider than standard rail on the rifle stock matter in UL class? also, why would any vertical spacer placed under the rest not be allowed to have adjustments? doesn't seem like UL is really UL what am I missing here?

Lee

I would like to play the game, if one pc rests were not allowed at all, make every one have to shoot off a two pc set up.

 

[Hozzie]

What the IBS should not do is make the target so difficult (or go to worst edge scoring) where the only ones that can be successful need to shoot 4 thousand dollar rifles. Instant death to the effort imo.

I have never understood this way of thinking. Is it worse if everyone can shoot a 250 without really trying or is it worse if no one shoots a 250. I would argue the former. If it isn't easy to shoot a 250, then records can be set for a long time and actually mean something. Too many soft ego's I guess.

It not about your score, it's about how you do against others in the same class shooting at the same time that matters IMO. I would personally like to see records not be easy to be broke.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I have never understood this way of thinking. Is it worse if everyone can shoot a 250 without really trying or is it worse if no one shoots a 250. I would argue the former. If it isn't easy to shoot a 250, then records can be set for a long time and actually mean something. Too many soft ego's I guess.

It not about your score, it's about how you do against others in the same class shooting at the same time that matters IMO. I would personally like to see records not be easy to be broke.

Duck, stones might be coming.

 

[FNSafari]

I have never understood this way of thinking. Is it worse if everyone can shoot a 250 without really trying or is it worse if no one shoots a 250. I would argue the former. If it isn't easy to shoot a 250, then records can be set for a long time and actually mean something. Too many soft ego's I guess.

It not about your score, it's about how you do against others in the same class shooting at the same time that matters IMO. I would personally like to see records not be easy to be broke.

I didn't say the game should be "if its easy to shoot a 250." The current IBS 50 yard target is "easier" to shoot a 250 on vs IR 50/50, etc. targets but its not a given. It's a good target for us who own and appreciate vintage target rifles like the Win 52 or Rem 37. It should be kept for that reason. If the 4-5000 $ crowd think its too easy then IBS can create a class and target for you.

 

[VLNBYR]

Competition is either pure or it is manipulated. I prefer pure.

 

[FNSafari]

Competition is either pure or it is manipulated. I prefer pure.

I have no idea as to what you mean by manipulated vs. pure competition?

 

[Hozzie]

I didn't say the game should be "if its easy to shoot a 250." The current IBS 50 yard target is "easier" to shoot a 250 on vs IR 50/50, etc. targets but its not a given. It's a good target for us who own and appreciate vintage target rifles like the Win 52 or Rem 37. It should be kept for that reason. If the 4-5000 $ crowd think its too easy then IBS can create a class and target for you.

My point is it has nothing to do with the type of gun or how expensive it is. I have all of the above and it doesn't matter which one I am shooting.

Let's say we have two classes, unlimited and factory (not getting into details of what is in what, this is purely for example). Everyone shoots the same target. The factory scores are (maybe) always going to be lower than the unlimited scores, but as a factory shooter, I am looking to beat my competitors. Today that may mean I shoot an average of 241-10x. Maybe the best average score ever shot in factory is 246-17x. I don't need to shoot a 250 on a card so I can feel good. I need to shoot a average of 246-18x so I can say I have shot the best ever factory score. That actually means something.

The fact that anyone can shoot a 250 means nothing.

I have no idea as to what you mean by manipulated vs. pure competition?

In essence he is agreeing with me. We don't need manipulated targets to make it easier or harder. Compete against the same competition in your class and the scores are the scores. A "harder" target just makes it easier (IMO) to actually place some value on record targets regardless of the class.

 

[Hozzie]

On a side note to the above discussion, one thing I think that is overlooked about ARA that makes it successful is the ability to go to a website and track your scores and history against other competitors. It's underestimated how much work this is, but I think if you want to get younger people involved and keep them involved you need to make the data accessible. Knowing how you actually compare to a larger group let's you know how well you are really doing.

 

[FNSafari]

My point is it has nothing to do with the type of gun or how expensive it is. I have all of the above and it doesn't matter which one I am shooting.

Let's say we have two classes, unlimited and factory (not getting into details of what is in what, this is purely for example). Everyone shoots the same target. The factory scores are (maybe) always going to be lower than the unlimited scores, but as a factory shooter, I am looking to beat my competitors. Today that may mean I shoot an average of 241-10x. Maybe the best average score ever shot in factory is 246-17x. I don't need to shoot a 250 on a card so I can feel good. I need to shoot a average of 246-18x so I can say I have shot the best ever factory score. That actually means something.

The fact that anyone can shoot a 250 means nothing.


In essence he is agreeing with me. We don't need manipulated targets to make it easier or harder. Compete against the same competition in your class and the scores are the scores. A "harder" target just makes it easier (IMO) to actually place some value on record targets regardless of the class.

Well pure accuracy does have to do with the rifle and its component parts and its build quality. IMO the current IBS 50 yd target is a good fit with older vintage target rifles and should be retained. Shooting an occasional 250 with these rifles and this target is a shooter confidence builder. Ties, that's the reason we have X counts.

 

[USMCDOC]

I have never understood this way of thinking. Is it worse if everyone can shoot a 250 without really trying or is it worse if no one shoots a 250. I would argue the former. If it isn't easy to shoot a 250, then records can be set for a long time and actually mean something. Too many soft ego's I guess.

It not about your score, it's about how you do against others in the same class shooting at the same time that matters IMO. I would personally like to see records not be easy to be broke.

Jamie, it isn’t about who you can beat, but can you beat yourself? Can you improve on yourself consistently? It is said, once you attain a clean, the cleans come easier. Can you capitalize on that. Improving your X count, or your consistency on the target. Unless you’re on a team, competition shooting should always be looked at as an individual sport. You are competing against yourself, in the hope of constantly improving yourself. You improve yourself, beating others will come naturally!

 

[Hozzie]

Jamie, it isn’t about who you can beat, but can you beat yourself? Can you improve on yourself consistently? It is said, once you attain a clean, the cleans come easier. Can you capitalize on that. Improving your X count, or your consistency on the target. Unless you’re on a team, competition shooting should always be looked at as an individual sport. You are competing against yourself, in the hope of constantly improving yourself. You improve yourself, beating others will come naturally!

I agree with you it should start with improving against yourself. I don't buy into the "clean" aspect of it. You either beat yourself or you don't. And eventually you beat competitors or you don't. If I was shooting 2500's all of the time, then it tells me the target is too easy.

I realize different games have different scoring so it's all relative. Everyone has to find what they like and do that.

 

[VLNBYR]

I have no idea as to what you mean by manipulated vs. pure competition?

The high jump in the Olympics is pure. How high you can jump off your right foot only, not head first and having to land on your feet is manipulated.

 

[FNSafari]

I guess so?

 

[Rem72043722]

I really wish something was closer to Chattanooga than a three hour drive to below Atlanta.

Bill

Bill,
How close are you to Madisonville, which is near Maryville? ABRA matches there. Maybe ARA? Nice people.

 

[BCR1]

Bill,
How close are you to Madisonville, which is near Maryville? ABRA matches there. Maybe ARA? Nice people.

I shot two ARA matches up there last fall and plan on a full season this year including ABRA too.

Bill

 

[TRSR8]

My point is it has nothing to do with the type of gun or how expensive it is. I have all of the above and it doesn't matter which one I am shooting.

Let's say we have two classes, unlimited and factory (not getting into details of what is in what, this is purely for example). Everyone shoots the same target. The factory scores are (maybe) always going to be lower than the unlimited scores, but as a factory shooter, I am looking to beat my competitors. Today that may mean I shoot an average of 241-10x. Maybe the best average score ever shot in factory is 246-17x. I don't need to shoot a 250 on a card so I can feel good. I need to shoot a average of 246-18x so I can say I have shot the best ever factory score. That actually means something.

The fact that anyone can shoot a 250 means nothing.


In essence he is agreeing with me. We don't need manipulated targets to make it easier or harder. Compete against the same competition in your class and the scores are the scores. A "harder" target just makes it easier (IMO) to actually place some value on record targets regardless of the class.

You're absolutely correct, unfortunately "participation mentality" has become pervasive. Head to head competition and gaining expertise over time with effort is being supplanted by "feel good" targets over challenge.
While I completely understand the goals, growth and demographic involved in ARA factory, with that target it seems to be moving away from some of those objectives IMO.

 

[COLT45SA]

Anything going on on the central east coast of Florida~?

 

[VLNBYR]

Anything going on on the central east coast of Florida~?

ARA being shot at Port Malabar club in Palm Bay.

 

[BCR1]

Fair enough. Not sure I agree on it vs. a BR stock, but it's all in what we have confidence in. I get that.

CZ BR stocks are close to or over $500, my set-up was $140.00 and being retired. I don't have the disposable income like when I was working.

Bill