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IBS 1000 YD competators PLEASE READ !!!!

Just to be perfectly clear this thread IMO has nothing to do with accuracy, it's political and the last I checked the forum is AS.
 
This thread helped me. I joined the IBS last year when I went and shot one match. I thought it worthwhile to join and support the organization. I had never shot a BR match before. The rifle I took was a right right F Class rifle that made IBS LG weight. I struggled. I told someone later that I felt like I was wearing clown shoes. They replied that I kind of was. I intend to shoot some more matches next year with a purpose built rifle.

I would not let a "spirited discussion" prevent anyone from taking an interest in the sport. When I got to the match, the other shooters, who I had never met, took an interest and made sure I understood the course of fire, explained going from sighters to target, how relay changeover worked, the difference in LG and HG target, if I knew how to set up my rest, everything. They were the same as I find F Class shooters to be, very welcoming.

When I got the ballot in the mail a week or so ago, I did not understand the 2 club issue. I also have never met or have any knowledge of the two gentlemen being nominated for President and Vice President. I did not have enough knowledge to cast a ballot. This thread has given me an understanding of the 2 club one range SOY ballot item. I now have to decide whether I have a firm enough grasp on the issue to cast an informed ballot. If I don't think so, I will not vote.
 
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Couple points that everyone needs to understand in this mess. Clubs and members can rule IF they know the rules and are smart. Whining on the internet does not fix anything. Agenda items and members showing up at the Winter meeting rule absolutely. Does not get any more complex or simpler than that!!!!!

1. Members cannot control SOY until they propose and pass an agenda item to take it out of the LRC hands. Right now it is written on an etcha sketch and subject to any change the LRC wants regardless of voters. That was passed as part of complete rewrite of rulebook and snuck in so they could control.

2. The current voting system is good and bad IF you know how to manipulate it. Once an agenda item is written, gets 25 signatures it goes to the LRC by 31 July. A date that come from precision shooting and submission date requirements for publication, which are no longer relevant today. There is a reason IBS and LRC has not changed that date. You need an agenda item to change that date until after the nationals. The LRC does not need 6 months to look at an agenda item that they cannot change! But by keeping it that way restricting time for shooters to talk and propose items and that limits shooters ability to propose changes. Ie control remains at LRC and E board. They will not change it until and agenda item is written and passed, simple as that DO IT!

3. The fun starts at the winter meeting. The LRC and IBS cannot change the wording until it hits the floor where a motion can be made to change it and has been done repeatedly to what they want. That is why people think an agenda item was changed by the LRC and Eboard. Not directly, but it was overtly by having themselves or others make a motion for a change on the floor at winter meeting.

4. Now you got the current point system because ONE club wanted to game the system. They wrote the agenda item, got 25 signatures, rented a 15 pax van and showed up at the WX meeting. Each having a proxy vote and controlled the vote. That gave them absolute control as only 25-40 long range shooters even show up. They got it passed and you can take it back same way. Now it only takes 1-20 shooters max, each with a proxy vote to control the meeting, agenda and votes. Again, simple as that.

Once an a change is approved for the one year trial, the odds are 99-1 the voters at large will approve it next year. So key is getting an agenda item passed at winter meeting. That is how the IBS and LRC get the changes they want. They have a proxy write the item, pass it to the WX meeting and ensure it passes at the winter meeting, knowing it will pass the at large vote next year of the members.

5. Online voting is not rocket science but once approved voting is no longer controlled by a small number, ergo it has been slow rolled and "said it is too difficult". IF the E Board had really wanted to do it, could have been done long ago. Any claim to contrary is total BS.

6. Issue IBS cards in 2019 with a distinctive number, hire a programmer to build a simple system to allow members to log in by that number and vote after they register online and set up password. Not that expensive to have done today. Clubs write the agenda item and force them to do it. For now a simple excel spreadsheet if one does not already exist to keep names and numbers. NOT Rocket science, but it will take an agenda item as they certainly will not propose it.

7. Write an agenda item to change the dates for new agenda items to 1 Oct. More than enough time for LRC to ponder. Previous excuse was the IBS had to meet the dates for submission to PS magazine in order to get their items in. PS is dead, no longer a valid reason to have a 1 July submission date, other than control and limiting agenda items.

Clubs need to understand, when writing an agenda item wording must be exactly the same if multiple clubs are trying to submit. One club write the item and send the word doc to the other clubs, otherwise one the agenda item with 25 signatures and exactly same wording will make it to the meeting. Format can be simple "As Written" wording from rulebook, "Change To" what ever you want to propose and simple "Justification" to explain why it is needed. Nothing more complex than that.
 
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BountyHunter said:
Couple points that everyone needs to understand in this mess. Clubs and members can rule IF they know the rules and are smart. Whining on the internet does not fix anything. Agenda items and members showing up at the Winter meeting rule absolutely. Does not get any more complex or simpler than that!!!!!

1. Members cannot control SOY until they propose and pass an agenda item to take it out of the LRC hands. Right now it is written on an etcha sketch and subject to any change the LRC wants regardless of voters. That was passed as part of complete rewrite of rulebook and snuck in so they could control.

2. The current voting system is good and bad IF you know how to manipulate it. Once an agenda item is written, gets 25 signatures it goes to the LRC by 31 July. A date that come from precision shooting and submission date requirements for publication, which are no longer relevant today. There is a reason IBS and LRC has not changed that date. You need an agenda item to change that date until after the nationals. The LRC does not need 6 months to look at an agenda item that they cannot change! But by keeping it that way restricting time for shooters to talk and propose items and that limits shooters ability to propose changes. Ie control remains at LRC and E board. They will not change it until and agenda item is written and passed, simple as that DO IT!

3. The fun starts at the winter meeting. The LRC and IBS cannot change the wording until it hits the floor where a motion can be made to change it and has been done repeatedly to what they want. That is why people think an agenda item was changed by the LRC and Eboard. Not directly, but it was overtly by having themselves or others make a motion for a change on the floor at winter meeting.

4. Now you got the current point system because ONE club wanted to game the system. They wrote the agenda item, got 25 signatures, rented a 15 pax van and showed up at the WX meeting. Each having a proxy vote and controlled the vote. That gave them absolute control as only 25-40 long range shooters even show up. They got it passed and you can take it back same way. Now it only takes 1-20 shooters max, each with a proxy vote to control the meeting, agenda and votes. Again, simple as that.

Once an a change is approved for the one year trial, the odds are 99-1 the voters at large will approve it next year. So key is getting an agenda item passed at winter meeting. That is how the IBS and LRC get the changes they want. They have a proxy write the item, pass it to the WX meeting and ensure it passes at the winter meeting, knowing it will pass the at large vote next year of the members.

5. Online voting is not rocket science but once approved voting is no longer controlled by a small number, ergo it has been slow rolled and "said it is too difficult". IF the E Board had really wanted to do it, could have been done long ago. Any claim to contrary is total BS.

6. Issue IBS cards in 2019 with a distinctive number, hire a programmer to build a simple system to allow members to log in by that number and vote after they register online and set up password. Not that expensive to have done today. Clubs write the agenda item and force them to do it. For now a simple excel spreadsheet if one does not already exist to keep names and numbers. NOT Rocket science, but it will take an agenda item as they certainly will not propose it.

7. Write an agenda item to change the dates for new agenda items to 1 Oct. More than enough time for LRC to ponder. Previous excuse was the IBS had to meet the dates for submission to PS magazine in order to get their items in. PS is dead, no longer a valid reason to have a 1 July submission date, other than control and limiting agenda items.

Clubs need to understand, when writing an agenda item wording must be exactly the same if multiple clubs are trying to submit. One club write the item and send the word doc to the other clubs, otherwise one the agenda item with 25 signatures and exactly same wording will make it to the meeting. Format can be simple "As Written" wording from rulebook, "Change To" what ever you want to propose and simple "Justification" to explain why it is needed. Nothing more complex than that.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand why you discontent NON SHOOTERS want to keep bashing the sport! The LRC is comprised of, in my opinion, damn good VOLUNTEERS while you sit back and spit your venom! Enjoy your day and Merry Christmas!!!

Mike Wilson
 
Not venom just cold hard facts to others on how the system really works. Now you obviously do not like that daylight but like it or not that is the way it is. I have been there too many times at the winter LRC committee and voter meetings and seen it first hand for 19 years. Please pontificate and articulate in detail what I said was wrong. My bet is crickets as you know I am right and it just chaps your butt to have it pointed out in public.

Merry Christmas
 
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BountyHunter said:
Not venom just cold hard facts to others on how the system really works. Now you obviously do not like that daylight but like it or not that is the way it is. I have been there too many times at the winter LRC committee and voter meetings and seen it first hand for 19 years. Please pontificate and articulate in detail what I said was wrong. My bet is crickets as you know I am right and it just chaps your butt to have it pointed out in public.

Merry Christmas
Click to expand...
I stand by my statement!
 
In other words you hate the daylight and cannot fault anything factually.

As I said "crickets"!!!!! Thank you for confirming what I said .
 
BountyHunter said:
In other words you hate the daylight and cannot fault anything factually.

As I said "crickets"!!!!! Thank you for confirming what I said .
Click to expand...
And Merry Christmas to your “crickets” also. I will not get into a pissing match, you are living in the past
BountyHunter said:
In other words you hate the daylight and cannot fault anything factually.

As I said "crickets"!!!!! Thank you for confirming what I said .
Click to expand...
 
That answers a lot of questions about how all these rules have been changed like changing where it took two shooters to 8 to have a match, how we started 2nd and 3rd place, how the number of shooters it took to get 2nd and 3rd place changed, how we get points for relay wins at the nationals and so many more rules were changed without a vote of the whole membership. Thanks BountyHunter for the truth about how things got to where we are today. Merry Christmas to all. Gary Nicholson
 
Whitehunter said:
This forum has said it VERY WELL !! Same old members on E-Board and Long Range Committee with there CRONYISM. They use the rules that meet there agenda for what they want and leave out rules when they oppose there agenda. They speak of how they grow the sport one day. Then next time the speak of how attendance is off at ranges and our prize tables are harder to fill and clubs want join the IBS because of turmoil. They make statements like " the shooters run this show if they would just do it like the rule book says". Who really runs the SHOW? Who sent out the BALLOT that was so poorly wrote? "NOT THE SHOOTERS" Just more of the same old members on E-Board and Long Range Committee with there "CRONYISM'
Click to expand...
 
They want long range to grow? the 2 to 8 number only apples to 1000 yard matches and not 600. That rule change was to put a new club just starting under and who benefited ? Also is that not discrimination for the rule only to apply for 1000 yd. discipline ?..... jim
 
None of this is very appealing to a potential new shooter. I just filled out my IBS registration card. I won't be shooting long range but am going to try to do some SR group and VFS in 2019. I hope the situation in those formats is less dramatic than all this appears to be.
 
jimmymac said:
None of this is very appealing to a potential new shooter. I just filled out my IBS registration card. I won't be shooting long range but am going to try to do some SR group and VFS in 2019. I hope the situation in those formats is less dramatic than all this appears to be.
Click to expand...
Don't let the politics keep you from enjoying the sport, there are a lot of us that truly enjoy the fun and fellowship with a great group of folks at matches. Let your biggest challenger be yourself and have a blast win of lose!
 
jimmymac said:
None of this is very appealing to a potential new shooter. I just filled out my IBS registration card. I won't be shooting long range but am going to try to do some SR group and VFS in 2019. I hope the situation in those formats is less dramatic than all this appears to be.
Click to expand...


Don't let it deter you. I realize what it "looks" like, but it's not. Realize that the 1k shooters cover many miles, and getting everyone together at a annual meeting just ain't going to happen. Remember the saying, bad news travels faster than good news.... This stuff being bounced back and forth on a forum is a similar thing, where as someone unhappy with something is more likely to speak up. I don't think it's a bad thing actually to be honest.


I've been shooting ibs 1k for only 4 seasons and am for the most part impressed with everyone I've met. The one and only complaint you're going to hear from me is the constant changing of things. If anything, it's to easy for the shooters to change the rules IN MY OPINION. If I was to write an agenda ever(which would go against my beliefs of leaving shit alone), it would be something along the lines of freezing all rules until online voting is functional.


Merry Christmas everyone,

Tom
 
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