IBS 1000 YD competators PLEASE READ !!!!
- Thread starter mikegaiz
- Start date
The only thing that gets me is I have had guys tell me they were running all over the country to get enough SOY point and it cost them in the neighbor hood of $10.000 to do it and still didn't win.
This sport is expensive enough without running all over to do it. So I say shoot a 10 match agg. and be done with it. If you want to shoot other matches they just don't count toward SOY points , just your first ten.
Joe Salt
This sport is expensive enough without running all over to do it. So I say shoot a 10 match agg. and be done with it. If you want to shoot other matches they just don't count toward SOY points , just your first ten.
Joe Salt
How does that encourage more shooting?
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
It would be nice to get something going in Pascagoula. I believe, last I heard, they have only 600 yards?
A match there would be able to pick up some shooters from FL I believe.
Bar 3 would have been a great venue for both 600 and 1,000 yard IBS. Mike Bush wanted to work with us but most of the guys who were even remotely interested had F-Class rifles that didn't meet IBS LG rules. There F-Class seems to have a good draw and IBS didn't fail as much as it never really got started. There were only two matches, IIRC, and no more than 8 people showed up.
JBauer
Gold $$ Contributor
To all IBS Long Range Shooters: There is a lot more to this story than previously posted. VA 1K has been using the Harry Jones Range for 7-9 years. I don't know who approved this piggyback arrangement within the IBS but it happened. Since then, a small handful (18-22) 1K shooters have used this arrangement to their personal SOY benefit by shooting 12 or more matches annually at the Harry Jones/VA 1K range(many times 20 matches were shot by an individual). Many of them are officers of the VA 1K Range and the Harry Jones Range. If there is any doubt about my statement go the results pages on the IBS website and research who and how many! I did!
I am sympathetic about the loss of a Range. I watched two of them that I frequented in Missouri go away. I did a little research and over the last 15 years we have lost at least 7 more including the Iowa Range that hosted 2 of our 1K National Championships. So the loss of a Range is unfortunate, but certainly not unheard of. I don't want VA 1K to go away. I want them to find their own range and stop creating doubt about a fair 1K SOY system within the IBS. We all have challenges in our lives and deal with them, it's time for them to do the same. Mike G stated "Only a very few guys give a shit about SOY". If that's the case I challenge Mike and the rest of the VA1K officers to abandon their Club's SOY points awarding ability and end this whole thing. Watch the Crawfishing on this!!!!
I would like to see any evidence that having two clubs at a individual range promotes the IBS or Shooting in general. The Range is still there, open to IBS shooters. How does adding a club produce a new shooter? Any VA 1K member can shoot the Harry Jones range. What does VA 1K offer the shooter that Harry Jones range doesn't already. Hmm? Maybe it's additional SOY points.
I got involved in this issue at the request of fellow IBS member. He asked for assistance in writing an Agenda Item that would get VA1K out of his state. He said that their presence hurt attendance at the range of his choice, White Horse. I agreed to help him with his issues and possibly eliminate the inequities that the Piggy back situation between VA1K and Harry Jones create within the IBS.
With all of this being said, we as IBS members, have the opportunity to vote on this issue. But I caution you to understand what your vote will determine. If you vote "Yes" any 1K range that has the ability to host another "Club" may present Club officers that fabricate a story, present it to the IBS for approval. The IBS does not have the ability or resources to police any attempt to create a "Sham Club". Secondly, the majority of IBS clubs cannot host another Club do to schedule restraints imposed on them by the Range Owners thus perpetuating the SOY inequities we see today. A vote for "NO" prevents any Range from allowing a piggyback club the ability of awarding SOY points. The exception is the VA 1K range which this Agenda Item grandfathers. Please note: with a lopsided "NO" vote the LR committee will take note of the vote's outcome and have somewhat of an obligation to respond accordingly.
I am sympathetic about the loss of a Range. I watched two of them that I frequented in Missouri go away. I did a little research and over the last 15 years we have lost at least 7 more including the Iowa Range that hosted 2 of our 1K National Championships. So the loss of a Range is unfortunate, but certainly not unheard of. I don't want VA 1K to go away. I want them to find their own range and stop creating doubt about a fair 1K SOY system within the IBS. We all have challenges in our lives and deal with them, it's time for them to do the same. Mike G stated "Only a very few guys give a shit about SOY". If that's the case I challenge Mike and the rest of the VA1K officers to abandon their Club's SOY points awarding ability and end this whole thing. Watch the Crawfishing on this!!!!
I would like to see any evidence that having two clubs at a individual range promotes the IBS or Shooting in general. The Range is still there, open to IBS shooters. How does adding a club produce a new shooter? Any VA 1K member can shoot the Harry Jones range. What does VA 1K offer the shooter that Harry Jones range doesn't already. Hmm? Maybe it's additional SOY points.
I got involved in this issue at the request of fellow IBS member. He asked for assistance in writing an Agenda Item that would get VA1K out of his state. He said that their presence hurt attendance at the range of his choice, White Horse. I agreed to help him with his issues and possibly eliminate the inequities that the Piggy back situation between VA1K and Harry Jones create within the IBS.
With all of this being said, we as IBS members, have the opportunity to vote on this issue. But I caution you to understand what your vote will determine. If you vote "Yes" any 1K range that has the ability to host another "Club" may present Club officers that fabricate a story, present it to the IBS for approval. The IBS does not have the ability or resources to police any attempt to create a "Sham Club". Secondly, the majority of IBS clubs cannot host another Club do to schedule restraints imposed on them by the Range Owners thus perpetuating the SOY inequities we see today. A vote for "NO" prevents any Range from allowing a piggyback club the ability of awarding SOY points. The exception is the VA 1K range which this Agenda Item grandfathers. Please note: with a lopsided "NO" vote the LR committee will take note of the vote's outcome and have somewhat of an obligation to respond accordingly.
The whole deal is BS this should have been voted on the first year that it happen . If that had taken place we would not be here today all mad and carring on . I don’t know why it’s was never voted on but it wasn’t then you had 2 or 3 clubs told you couldnt then one or 2 told you can if you do this . It’s like a lot of other stuff some could have a national match and not have all the required benches .rest rooms ,Showers etc which is plainly stated in the rules that the Vice President is to go by. Then we have a club that wants to have nationals and they are told the must make improvements and requirements per the rules on the list for the Vice President and about the same time another club wants to have nationals and they are faxed a letter with the rules on it and this club did just that they built showers more cleaning bench’s and cover and also restrooms they got to have nationals . My point is if you tell one yes you have to tell all yes same if you say no. So now we have a new Vice President and he is following the rules and he is wrong because a club that did not meet the requirements did not get the bid for nationals . Personally I want to thank Jim for doing his job correctly and I know I’m saying that because the club I help at got them well you see that’s wrong because I removed my self from all that discussion like I was supposed to do so as usually with this certain few follow the rules and you are wrong.
We have clubs 3 maybe 4 looking hard at joining our organization and all have complimented the group that is working with them saying they like it when things are explained to them and people are willing to drive 6 + hours to help with a problem and provide them with the commands for the line , National Anthem etc . Then you get that phone call that some one that is a IBS member has called and told them not to do what shooters are telling them to do and do it this person way or he won’t come . Do you think that is how you get clubs I don’t . Attendance is up at about half of the 1000 yard clubs this year down a little at a few and down maybe 4 to 6 shooters at others but at the end we grew and that is great. 600 has held about par which is great as well . I say this to say and for the ones of you that have seen growth I hope you will back me up on this . I do know I talked to Jimmy at Hawks Ridge the other day and he said we had signed up the most shooters this year as new member than the last 3 and I have been told that same thing by others.
In wrapping this up forums like this don’t grow our sport but it seems this is the only place we can have a constructive conversation .
This organization is the easiest organization in the country to get a rule change and yet i still get the the LRC needs to change this rule or this rule and we can not change a rule in the rule book period nor can the E board . The shooters run this show if they would just do it like the rule book says.
The LRC can make some changes in the SOY program as long as it meets the rule book. Right now the rule book says we have a 1 target a two target and a three target to make soy rules for we have done that for 1 and 2 have not done 3 because no one as k to shoot it but will have one ready if they want to.
That rule has been there for a long time and it has never had a agenda item to change it and the clubs shooting the different formats are happy because they are not changing so if they are not changing and no one has done a agenda item is there really a problem or is it a few that don’t like it wanting it to be a problem.
As for traveling Donna ,Ray and my self have enjoyed doing that and we have supported every club we could east of BigPiney except for Florida and Bridgeville and I hope to make them this year because we like it . But I do have to agree with some statements above sometimes you just get told we don’t want y’all coming and that’s fine to because if I do come you can rest assured I will do my best to win and make you love me even more.
It’s been a good year we have only had to have one conference call and that was mainly to help Mont. with Nationals and fix a few things so I’m happy if they are that many unhappy people out ther I whish you would let me know. I have sent messages out to over half the 600 and 1000 ranges only one has had a suggestion on the way something is done the other was on a rule we can not change. Now the other half may be more vocal and if the are I’m good with that .
You know we still get the phone call so and so has shot the same bench 2 times in a row stuff and I get that taken care of and then then you get the so and so has shoot the same 2 benches for both 600 and 1000 for 2 years well that will get you a phone call and say don’t do it again and they have said ok I’m sorry . We hear only a few care about SOY points that is BS to you are lying to yourself if you say that because I will bet everyone of yo u will be calling Donna if her or the range has got someone a .005 off trust me it happens everyone makes mistakes but don’t tell me they don’t matter .
Point to all of this most of the time no one truly knows the whole story just the part they want to hear and then they get on here and start blowing stuff up running down people and sponsors and wonder why our attendance is off at ranges and our prize table is harder to fill or that’s a real nice club over there and they won’t join IBS because of all the turn oil and BS.
This is the shooters Club if you want to change a rule do what the rule book says do if you want to protest a target because because you think it was wrong put your protest money up and do what the rulebook says. It’s your club treat it that way . And I know it will be said the book we have now was done wrong well it may have been and the people voted it in on a pretty off set margin and no one has done and agenda item to correct the areas they say are wrong but they sure do complain about them.
At the end of the day everyone is not going to agree but you have to agree to disagree or you will kill what ever group or club you are in.
Merry Christmas to All Of You I really Hope Santa Brings You Joy and wonderful Gifts but some may get lumps of coal just saying he knows if you have been naughty or nice.
David
PS fill free to grammar and spell check and call me or pm me if you would like to have a civilized conversation I promise I will do my best to answer your question and talk because if I like to talk .
We have clubs 3 maybe 4 looking hard at joining our organization and all have complimented the group that is working with them saying they like it when things are explained to them and people are willing to drive 6 + hours to help with a problem and provide them with the commands for the line , National Anthem etc . Then you get that phone call that some one that is a IBS member has called and told them not to do what shooters are telling them to do and do it this person way or he won’t come . Do you think that is how you get clubs I don’t . Attendance is up at about half of the 1000 yard clubs this year down a little at a few and down maybe 4 to 6 shooters at others but at the end we grew and that is great. 600 has held about par which is great as well . I say this to say and for the ones of you that have seen growth I hope you will back me up on this . I do know I talked to Jimmy at Hawks Ridge the other day and he said we had signed up the most shooters this year as new member than the last 3 and I have been told that same thing by others.
In wrapping this up forums like this don’t grow our sport but it seems this is the only place we can have a constructive conversation .
This organization is the easiest organization in the country to get a rule change and yet i still get the the LRC needs to change this rule or this rule and we can not change a rule in the rule book period nor can the E board . The shooters run this show if they would just do it like the rule book says.
The LRC can make some changes in the SOY program as long as it meets the rule book. Right now the rule book says we have a 1 target a two target and a three target to make soy rules for we have done that for 1 and 2 have not done 3 because no one as k to shoot it but will have one ready if they want to.
That rule has been there for a long time and it has never had a agenda item to change it and the clubs shooting the different formats are happy because they are not changing so if they are not changing and no one has done a agenda item is there really a problem or is it a few that don’t like it wanting it to be a problem.
As for traveling Donna ,Ray and my self have enjoyed doing that and we have supported every club we could east of BigPiney except for Florida and Bridgeville and I hope to make them this year because we like it . But I do have to agree with some statements above sometimes you just get told we don’t want y’all coming and that’s fine to because if I do come you can rest assured I will do my best to win and make you love me even more.
It’s been a good year we have only had to have one conference call and that was mainly to help Mont. with Nationals and fix a few things so I’m happy if they are that many unhappy people out ther I whish you would let me know. I have sent messages out to over half the 600 and 1000 ranges only one has had a suggestion on the way something is done the other was on a rule we can not change. Now the other half may be more vocal and if the are I’m good with that .
You know we still get the phone call so and so has shot the same bench 2 times in a row stuff and I get that taken care of and then then you get the so and so has shoot the same 2 benches for both 600 and 1000 for 2 years well that will get you a phone call and say don’t do it again and they have said ok I’m sorry . We hear only a few care about SOY points that is BS to you are lying to yourself if you say that because I will bet everyone of yo u will be calling Donna if her or the range has got someone a .005 off trust me it happens everyone makes mistakes but don’t tell me they don’t matter .
Point to all of this most of the time no one truly knows the whole story just the part they want to hear and then they get on here and start blowing stuff up running down people and sponsors and wonder why our attendance is off at ranges and our prize table is harder to fill or that’s a real nice club over there and they won’t join IBS because of all the turn oil and BS.
This is the shooters Club if you want to change a rule do what the rule book says do if you want to protest a target because because you think it was wrong put your protest money up and do what the rulebook says. It’s your club treat it that way . And I know it will be said the book we have now was done wrong well it may have been and the people voted it in on a pretty off set margin and no one has done and agenda item to correct the areas they say are wrong but they sure do complain about them.
At the end of the day everyone is not going to agree but you have to agree to disagree or you will kill what ever group or club you are in.
Merry Christmas to All Of You I really Hope Santa Brings You Joy and wonderful Gifts but some may get lumps of coal just saying he knows if you have been naughty or nice.
David
PS fill free to grammar and spell check and call me or pm me if you would like to have a civilized conversation I promise I will do my best to answer your question and talk because if I like to talk .
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This forum has said it VERY WELL !! Same old members on E-Board and Long Range Committee with there CRONYISM. They use the rules that meet there agenda for what they want and leave out rules when they oppose there agenda. They speak of how they grow the sport one day. Then next time the speak of how attendance is off at ranges and our prize tables are harder to fill and clubs want join the IBS because of turmoil. They make statements like " the shooters run this show if they would just do it like the rule book says". Who really runs the SHOW? Who sent out the BALLOT that was so poorly wrote? "NOT THE SHOOTERS"
Good example of above the Ballot sent out was exactly like a shooter wrote it . Because it can’t be changed from the way it was sent in with signatures and presented at the winter meeting . I guess someone only got half the story on that.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
This has to be a different IBS Im not familiar with. The one I know is getting new shooters, huge prize tables, smaller groups, records breaking, and guys have FUN. This stuff has to be isolated because I dont see it or hear it from the guys I talk to and know all over the country.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
How very true you have stated it !.!.!
From the IBS By-Laws there is suppose to be a 1000-Yard Committee elected every year (minus the IBS Presidents appointee's).
Here are those By-Law's (which are repeatedly violated):
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ARTICLE XV 1000-YARD COMMITTEE
Section 1.
The 1000 Yard Committee shall consist of a minimum of three (3) and a maximum of six (6) Individual Members nominated and elected by a majority vote of the 1000 Yard competitors at the Annual Meeting.
Section 2.
The members of the 1000 Yard Committee from among their number shall designate the Chairperson of the 1000 Yard Committee.
Section 3.
The members of the 1000 Yard Committee shall serve a term of one (1) year or until the next Annual Meeting, whichever is greater.
Section 4.
The 1000 Yard Committee shall be responsible for making recommendations regarding 1000 Yard competition to the Board of Directors.
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Myself I've been saying these 2 things for years:
- The 1000-Yard Committee should be made up of 1 representative for each range, and no more then just them.
- Online voting instead of having to travel to and attend the annual meeting.
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Look at that over there... it’s the long line of volunteers that want the thankless job of damned if you do damned if don’t of being “in charge” of anything. The ballots I see to vote for any persons generally consist of one name and a line for a write in. Seems like a great opportunity for some new blood to step up.
Can you tell me when this has not happen ?
Online voting is being worked on very hard but it’s not a easy task from what I have been told.
If PRS was going to bring more shooters to LR Benchrest it would have already happened. The opposite is true in our area. Unless you mean when PRS shooters get over 60 yrs old they might switch to Benchrest!!!
dmoran
Donovan Moran
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Been along time for sure.... which is why I state that it has been "repeatedly violated".
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Been hearing that same basic reply since 2011 (when it was decided to be implemented).
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The LRC has been voted on by the membership in attendance at every winter meeting as a matter of a fact last year it was done by ballot . Every member on the LRC is a 1 year term no where does it say they have term limits . So I ask again when has this not been done exactly how the bylaws say it should be ?
Have you offered to help with online voting if you would like to I’m sure President Stover would be glad to talk to you about it.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
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In fact I did just that, back around 2012, to Jeff in a phone conversation, as well as made it pretty well known among competitors.
Not interested in helping any more (and to busy with ELRC in my free time).
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Not in extent to what I've read in annual meeting minutes.
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In fact I did just that, back around 2012, to Jeff in a phone conversation, as well as made it pretty well known among competitors.
Not interested in helping any more (and to busy with ELRC in my free time).
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Not only 1 k but IBS period
Seen the same thin a year ago I’ve the front rest
One rule that is needed
If you don’t want to have FUN don’t come
No one complained about Florida club shooting at the Georgia range so it is nothing new, you act like Virginia is the only club that has used or piggyback with another club.
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