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I need advice.

Most of you know that John was supposed to go to Phoenix to shoot in Navy Nationals, all that changed today and I'm conflicted as to what to do.

Originally John believed that they won their Navy postal through the CMP, thus qualifying them to go. Apparently one of the scores was wrong. They had a kid out sick, and instead of waiting for her to return the JROTC commander instructed 3 team members to each shoot one of her position targets, then he sent it in under her name. He told the kids they couldn't talk about what they did, to keep it in the team. Sad part is the sick kid could easily have made the score if not better. Today for what ever reason the commander said he wouldn't count the cheated target. That means they lost by 1 pt and won't go to Phoenix. He preceded to tell the team members today not to talk about why the cheated target won't count, and to simply say the school couldn't afford to pay for the trip, another lie.

So a Chief Warrant Office commanded 3 cadets to shoot a sick teammates competition target which he falsely recorded as the sick cadets even though it would almost be guaranteed she would have met or beaten the false score. Now on top of that he is telling the cadets to lie again to explain why they aren't going to Nationals.

John will probably qualify as an individual, but because the team is not going he won't be able to compete for individual National championship which he did have a chance to win.

I'm not sure if destroying John's chances bothers me as much as Gunners actions falsifying a target by ordering the cadets to do something that is wrong, dishonest, and dishonorable, lying about it, then further having the cadets state another lie to cover up the first set of lies. This is the leader of the NJROTC class, a retired marine, making his cadets participate in cheating, then lying about it, and lying for the cover up.

Just to clarify that this wasn't just hearsay John has text messages from 2 of the 3 students involved in shooting the target who clearly state in writing that Gunner directed them to cheat, to lie to keep the cheating "inside the team", and further told them to lie to cover up why they aren't going.

I'm in a no win here. I don't feel Gunner should be a NJROTC instructor. Do I go to the principal with a print out of the text to report the unprofessional and downright wrong actions, do I go to Gunners superior to report behavior not becoming to his rank and position, do I do both, or do I do nothing at all.

Please tell me what would you all do here. I'd really appreciate your input. I've never delt in a situation like this. I can only imagine what would happen if the sport was basketball or football instead of rifle and people found the coach cheating. All hell would break loose.

Thanks
Paula
 
Sorry that John has been affected by this. You already know what you need to do Paula, I think you just need a little support in doing it. Yes the whole situation needs a good dose of sunlight and there are many valuable lessons for the young people involved. I for one think the truth needs to be told.

Paul Meyer
 
I'm in total agreement with @ppaul. Use both of your options in regards to the CWO. Do your best to make John understand that the world has people like this guy, and that he needs to hold his head up high, knowing he is better than the CWO.
Remember, "cheaters never win, winners never cheat".

Lloyd
 
My guess is, that "Instructor" (he's not a marine, never was) has lied and cheated his way thru his entire life so it just came natural for him to carry on the way he did. He needs to be called out on the carpet. Not sure how to recommend that action but that action needs to happen. It's not ratting or telling or snitching. It's called doing what's right. He tried to fail an entire team so another can move on. How did he carry out his mission in the Marine corps ? How did he get thru his time while serving our country ? My guess is he cheated and lied his way thru it. He pulled those JROTC candidates into his lie allowing them to be disciplined and possibly removed from the program for a false Win. He needs to pay for his actions. I'm sorry for the position this idiot put your family in. It's wrong and shouldn't go unpunished. Good luck with your decision. John
 
Paula, maybe the right thing to do is contact other parents and go together as a group and demand he be removed from the program. At this point, the kids are conflicted and need to learn the lesson that honesty is the only way to live their lives.

I can't imagine how a Marine would think that this was the right course of action to take. What lesson did he think he was teaching these kids. The irony of this situation is that he apparently is very good at teaching them to shoot, but sets a very poor example on how to live their lives.

Had he been successful in the cheating scheme, how happy with the outcome, would John be, knowing he got there because his leader was a cheat and a fraud. He would forever be reminded that the whole event was a sham. It is up to you to teach John to live his life while being completely honest.

If this guy is really a Marine, he is part of that one percent that every group finds within itself. He is a disgrace to himself and brings tarnish to the Corps.

Please keep us posted on the outcome and tell John to keep his chin up. there will be many disappointments down the road but that's the time when you pull up your boot straps and continue on.

By the way, what will it cost to send John to the match. Maybe a Go Fund Me would gather the money quickly.

Nick
 
I think as stated earlier, you already know what has to be done.

I would talk to the officers superior. That is the correct chain of command. No need to create a drama beyond that. If his superior is responsible, then he will handle this. I not, then escalate as necessary.

Wrong is wrong and to teach our young people to be responsible, you have no choice but to bring this to the attention of the authorities. No it isn't easy, but that is the other lesson for the young, life isn't and sometimes the right thing to do is harder than doing nothing at all. But that is what makes the difference.
 
Lol...just a typical day in the military. The guy probably took some dirty habits and brought it to the NROTC program.

We had similar issues in the army. Guys were trying to do the right thing, had the best intentions, but in the end only made things a lot worse.

The joke about army property is there’s only one thief in the army and everyone else is just trying to get their stuff back.

He’s retired, he probably doesn’t need the money. If he was doing it to teach kids, then he’s doing it wrong and either needs to be disciplined or fired.

His lie hurt your son, so that’s a no go. I would speak to him first to tell him your plan and give him a heads up that you’re going to the principle to explain why your son isn’t shooting.
 
I won’t get mixed up in someone else’s web of lies.
i have enough of my own....:cool:
 
Agree fully with Paul. The TRUTH needs to be told and come forth. No one will learn anything by a false hood or lie and in the end it will be much worse for all involved.
It is sad that this type of thing goes on and effects those that want to be honest and follow regulations and laws.
 
Paula
My definition of integrity is what you do when nobody is looking.
This guy definitely dosen't have any and shouldn't be teaching our future leaders.
Nothing good can come of it, if not brought to light.
It burns my ass to know these kids were cheated out of an opportunity of a lifetime that they work so diligently for.
 
Thanks guys.

I didn't sleep last night over this. I keep comming back to the position these kids are in. Trying to teach the difference between following your COMMANDER orders when you don't agree vs not following an order because the order is wrong. Remember "YOU C ANT HANDLE THE TRUTH" from A Few Good Men.

In the end I sent a letter with the screen shots from the texts verifying the chain of events to the principal and the superintendent. John is looking into the chain of command for me. John texted me that Gunner says they are going again, but I fear that's a ploy to prevent me from pursuing him for his actions. I just keep coming back to having to walk the walk and teaching John that what he did in telling me about the situation was the right thing to do even if it means paying the price in the end.

LOL. I let John do JROTC to help build character, improve his confidence and install discipline. I never in a million years thought he would have to deal with dishonor and deception in the leadership. I feel justified in my decision to report this. Thank you all for helping me see the whole picture, and supporting my decision to report this.

Paula
 
A teacher/instructor ordered three team members to shoot those targets. At the very least he encouraged them to do so. To me, it shows the power that teacher has over these young men and women.
We see almost daily that teacher/student relationships go too far. I asked a male teacher friend once what was the cause. He replied that it was about power; power over the students to make them do what a teacher wants. And that too is also handled with a "don't tell anyone" admonition.
It is time for doing the right thing. It may hurt the team and/or individual team members but, in the long run, the real "bad guy" has to rooted out before the next unethical situation. Team members who don't understand that do not belong there either.
Edit: I was typing while you posted your last response. I truly believe John has shown exactly what you were teaching him his whole life. Doing the right thing is always the correct path.
 
Paula,
ALWAYS take the high road, isn't that what you have been instilling in John? Walk the walk, both you and your son will be better for it and you will always be able to hold your head high with no second thoughts or regrets.
 
Hi, Paula -
Could you please provide a little background on the subject of your thread? It is very likely that I would not be able to provide any help, but I would still like to know who John is, the Navy Nationals in Phoenix, etc. Just a paragraph would suffice.
Thank you, and I hope it all ends well.
Alex
 

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