I shoot alot of paper...But it ain't necessary for a meat hunter, and 4" at 100 yards is all ya need to kill any big game animal, when ya limit your range to 125 yds or so. Hunters have been doing it for hundreds of years with lesser cartridges and includung black powder, almost eliminated the herds of buffalo, bear, deer, elk, cougar,wolves, etc... A box of 20 factory cartridges will get ya at least 10 deer....these guys probably think you're wasting ammo looking for tiny groups. But there is nothing wrong with either method of hunting, it's what you prefer, and they both work.
"I don't shoot paper"
- Thread starter Wolfdog91
- Start date
Absolutely. But Id rather find out what I can expect from my rifles and not set my ego any higher than the results I see on paper. LOL. No surprises and no hurt feelings.
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
Clint Eastwood - “A man has got to know his limitations”
It is only from this point that one can begin to improve…
jnyfeler
Gold $$ Contributor
I find it amusing that some hunters actually attempt sighting in a Rifle or Pistol .
What I mean by that statement is , I've seen scores of opening day hunters flood local ranges a week or two before season begins . A vast majority shooting cheap run of the mill ammo and I often wondered IF that was what they hunted with ?.
So one day while on a Range I asked these two fellows WHAT brand of Ammo they used for hunting ?.
One was a Winchester Silver tip Guy the other Remington corelokt . So I noticed Neither had their hunting ammo ,yet were sighting in their Rifles . ODD I'd say but each to there own .
One of the Guys says do You hunt , Yes I do , then What do You use ?. MY own loads and I shoot those while sighting My Rifle as well . Well that's because their cheaper to shoot reloading your own right /.
Maybe Maybe Not I told him but accurate they are . He looks at Me funny like and says more accurate than factory ammo , kind of doubting that there partner .
So I tell them both to shoot your best #3 shots , I will then shoot #3 factory loads from MY Rifle and another #3 using MY hand loads . One is using a Winchester .243 ,the other Guy has a .308 and I'm guessing a Remington although I didn't see the name on it .
I'm using MY Commercial Mauser 7RM . NONE of their groups touched and as I had NO measuring device an educated guess says perhaps 1.5-2.25 inches at 100 Yd. . Conversation has shifted to how far away one of them killed an Elk one season .
I fire #3 factory Federal Hi-Shok maybe .75"-1" and 2.5 inches left of center , one guys says well that 7 RM is flatter shooting ( OK so I'm thinking WTH does that have to do with 100 yd. accuracy ) Next up #3 handloads target comes back two holes of which one is pretty ragged 2" high dead center of target and I'm zeroed at 225 yd. . Neither say a word until I remind them the further away the animal is ,the further the spread of you ammunition pattern , so your 400 yd. Elk ,just escaped unscathed .
I didn't bother telling them about Sweden and Finland's running target shooting requirement ,so as to obtain a hunting permit . I believe that should be implemented here as well ,as it forces you to become a BETTER shot .
jnyfeler
Gold $$ Contributor
Good grief, an entire range session and never once hitting the target? Those types don't want to learn.
Jeff
POI : An excellent point . I've often wondered IF seasonal or occasional hunters actually know different ammunition impacts differently , as in POA isn't always POI .
I was shooting one of My AR's one morning and ran perhaps #20 rounds of that ugly Winchester white box crap slowly down range . Pulled My target and sure enough ,off left more than 2" and climbed like a ladder .
Let My Barrel cool ,opened up a box of MY practice loads bulk 55 Gr. W/cannelure 25.6 Gr. BLC-2 and ran them down range .
Put #15 together in the 10 ring lower right quadrant a dime covered at 200 yd. , I saved #5 to see if they would do the same later on . They Did Not , I had a flyer and it either was ME or the Load , either way I didn't pull it off . As I've said previously I'm NOT a Bench shooter and use progressive presses .
I did prove one thing later ( about two months later ) on by carefully reloading that above recipe , I was able to nearly replicate that again when trying for #20 under a dime but only manged a quarter group at 200 yd.
That AR has a chrome lined bore and is extremely accurate for a gas gun . Everyone told Me DON'T Buy a chrome bore ; I'm glad I didn't listen !.
I was shooting one of My AR's one morning and ran perhaps #20 rounds of that ugly Winchester white box crap slowly down range . Pulled My target and sure enough ,off left more than 2" and climbed like a ladder .
Let My Barrel cool ,opened up a box of MY practice loads bulk 55 Gr. W/cannelure 25.6 Gr. BLC-2 and ran them down range .
Put #15 together in the 10 ring lower right quadrant a dime covered at 200 yd. , I saved #5 to see if they would do the same later on . They Did Not , I had a flyer and it either was ME or the Load , either way I didn't pull it off . As I've said previously I'm NOT a Bench shooter and use progressive presses .
I did prove one thing later ( about two months later ) on by carefully reloading that above recipe , I was able to nearly replicate that again when trying for #20 under a dime but only manged a quarter group at 200 yd.
That AR has a chrome lined bore and is extremely accurate for a gas gun . Everyone told Me DON'T Buy a chrome bore ; I'm glad I didn't listen !.
Best thing to do to those people is put a few holes in their targets when they re shooting!
Last edited:
I do shoot paper, I also enjoy shooting steel,my reasons are it extends my hunting season...By handloading and tuning my rifles I have a very high level of confidence when the moment of truth presents itself and the only way to replicate the pressure felt when that buck of lifetime is standing in front of you is through competition...challenge these guys to come to a local competition the next time they approach you with the I don't shoot paper mentality...they may learn something and pick up a new hobby along the way
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Quote: " Well I don't shoot paper past zeroing ! I'm a hunter I shoot live game not targets!" Like what do y'all say to that ? "
I would like to add what I have heard a lot say, after they watch me clean my gun several times, "I never clean my GUN!" My response, "it is only a hobby, make it fun for you! My Dad never cleaned his gun, and did not even own a gun case!"
Most want you do dumb down to their level, and tell them they are ok. I always had a business card of a local gunsmith to refer them to when they wanted their gun cleaned.
I would like to add what I have heard a lot say, after they watch me clean my gun several times, "I never clean my GUN!" My response, "it is only a hobby, make it fun for you! My Dad never cleaned his gun, and did not even own a gun case!"
Most want you do dumb down to their level, and tell them they are ok. I always had a business card of a local gunsmith to refer them to when they wanted their gun cleaned.
I do both, paper and hunt. These "I don't shoot paper" types can be pretty entertaining. Years ago in High School, I had a 'buddy' like that who wanted me to go deer hunting with him. He had a M70 in 300 H&H mag his dad gave him so off to the range we went to sight it in. He proceeded to shoot, and shoot, and shoot. He asked me to give him a hand so I took the rifle and put three rounds into about 1.5". He proceeded to get pissed off at me because HE couldn't shoot. The dirty dog stood me up the next morning and went without me. Kinda ended that friendship.
Another time, a friend and I were at the range. There were a couple of annoying guys shooting an AR on the next bench over. You know the type, shoot with brass flying everywhere and loud/obnoxious! They would argue back and forth about sighting the gun in. One would shoot a few times and not hit a thing, then they would argue some more and the other would do the same thing, adjust the sights, argue and then not hit a thing. After about the fourth round of this, my buddy swung over slightly and just as one of them fired, he put one right into the X on their target. The shooter puffed up and proclaimed "see, you dumb &*^*, I told you so" but then proceeded to not hit a thing afterwards. They switched up again and my buddy repeated the scenario for the other guy. Same result - much bragging and putting the other guy down. I had to put my head down on the bench. I was laughing so hard, I had tears coming out of my eyes. Those two just about came to blows, but they were right, they never did shoot any paper.
Another time, a friend and I were at the range. There were a couple of annoying guys shooting an AR on the next bench over. You know the type, shoot with brass flying everywhere and loud/obnoxious! They would argue back and forth about sighting the gun in. One would shoot a few times and not hit a thing, then they would argue some more and the other would do the same thing, adjust the sights, argue and then not hit a thing. After about the fourth round of this, my buddy swung over slightly and just as one of them fired, he put one right into the X on their target. The shooter puffed up and proclaimed "see, you dumb &*^*, I told you so" but then proceeded to not hit a thing afterwards. They switched up again and my buddy repeated the scenario for the other guy. Same result - much bragging and putting the other guy down. I had to put my head down on the bench. I was laughing so hard, I had tears coming out of my eyes. Those two just about came to blows, but they were right, they never did shoot any paper.
Last edited:
I for one don't get excited about paper shooting but for many reasons interpretation of the results seen on paper are really important.
If you want to take game cleanly at what ever range you shoot then range work is required. I practice field shooting positions at the range and the groups are how you measure your technique.
I was at the rifle range one day shooting my Anschutz .222 at 200 yards.
A guy came there and started attaching about 10 blown up balloons to a 4'x8' piece
of plywood with thumbtacks sitting at 50 yards off to the right side of me.
He came over and asked me what I was shooting. I told him to look through
my spotter. I had 2 penny size dots on a postcard at the 200.
He turned and told me he couldn't get "his guys" to hit those balloons at 50 yards.
He was the chief of police for a smaller nearby town.
A guy came there and started attaching about 10 blown up balloons to a 4'x8' piece
of plywood with thumbtacks sitting at 50 yards off to the right side of me.
He came over and asked me what I was shooting. I told him to look through
my spotter. I had 2 penny size dots on a postcard at the 200.
He turned and told me he couldn't get "his guys" to hit those balloons at 50 yards.
He was the chief of police for a smaller nearby town.
I would venture to guess, at least from working the Hunter Site In at our club, that most or should I say the average hunter does not load their own, but purchases ammo. They get what they get and consistency is not what they get. Sure they will buy ammo that says, "Match" or "Competition" but most likely will shoot not appreciably different in their gun that the low priced ammo on the shelf.
It is sad too, because a hunter needs all the help they can get:
1) they rarely know the exact distance to their target
2) the target is constantly moving
3) they most likely do not have a dope card or had spent the time to site in the scope to the distance they are shooting
4) their ammunition is rarely consistent making the chance of hitting their target even harder
5) don't shoot enough, maybe 20 rounds a year, if that and only a week before hunting season, so have little experience or muscle memory to support consistent shots
6) and last but by no means least, don't have a clue how to use their scope or rifle
It is sad too, because a hunter needs all the help they can get:
1) they rarely know the exact distance to their target
2) the target is constantly moving
3) they most likely do not have a dope card or had spent the time to site in the scope to the distance they are shooting
4) their ammunition is rarely consistent making the chance of hitting their target even harder
5) don't shoot enough, maybe 20 rounds a year, if that and only a week before hunting season, so have little experience or muscle memory to support consistent shots
6) and last but by no means least, don't have a clue how to use their scope or rifle
6.5 forever
Silver $$ Contributor
I hang a target at the start of each range session. I use it for zeroing reference. I RSO at a range that has steel out to 1000 yds. My shooting will start somewhere in the middle. The paper will only get used to verify POI. Sometimes it won't get shot.
I will use a paper target for barrel fouling after cleaning. When working on loads, I will shoot three shot groups on paper. Then verify groupings at 550 and 1000 yards till I find what I am looking for.
This works for a 70 year old prone bipod shooter!!
I will use a paper target for barrel fouling after cleaning. When working on loads, I will shoot three shot groups on paper. Then verify groupings at 550 and 1000 yards till I find what I am looking for.
This works for a 70 year old prone bipod shooter!!
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.