"I don't shoot paper"

[K22]

I've been in this game for a long time. In the old days, the deer rifle was hauled out in the fall, the sight in checked then the hunter went to put meat in the freezer. This is the culture I grew up in. My grandfather, father, uncles hunted for meat, food not racks. They didn't belong to gun clubs, didn't reload and were not shooters per se.

My father took 18 bucks and a bunch of does with an open sight Model 94, Winchester, 30-30. Where he hunted, shots were under 150 yards. If you could hit a pie plate you were good to go.

While I'm primarily a hunter also, I like to shoot and practice. When I became a varmint hunter, I learned very quickly that practical practice on the range can make a huge difference in success in the field. Also, you better have equipment capable of hitting ting targets at long distances.

I enjoy going to the range, shooting off my sticks, testing myself and honing my marksmanship skills. Varmint hunting, in my opinion is precision shooting and embodies the same elements as precision target shooting if one wants to be successful and make humane shots.

Using a paper target in practice is essential in my opinion to assess your skill, make corrections, test different techniques, environmental affects, etc. I study my paper target and learn from them which makes me a better varmint hunter.

I get a lot of strange looks at the range shooting off my sticks but if asked, I merely reply, "I can't take that bench in the field where I hunt."

 

[rebel]

Last fall I was at my club getting a zero on my 6.5x47. Father and Son next to me were getting ready for the season. First hunt for this kid who's dad was having him shoot his 300wm. He couldn't hit the paper plate at 100! He didn't look like he wasn't having any fun. I felt really bad for him..
I asked his dad if he could shoot my 47 a few times. He was smiling after that!!

Guys like that just get on my nerves. Glad he's got the kid out shooting and hunting, but put him/her behind something that won't beat the hell out of them. Hearing folks say they "need" a big magnum to kill a 200 lb whitetail is nonsense.

 

[dragman]

Just smile and say "Would you like to shoot for guns??" I say you pick cold bore 1 shot closest to center or for group, And I will pick the distance.
When they ask how far say 1000, 1200, 1760 whatever. that usually gets them asking wow you can actually shoot that far etc. Then it's usually a cool conversation about rifles accuracy etc.

 

[moondog]

I sold a Swarovski scope to one of my Vendors years ago. He asked why I was selling it. I told him I don't hunt big game anymore. I asked him how far he takes shot on game. He said out to 800 yards! I almost didn't sell it to him. He knows I shoot ELR and asked me how far I shot game. I told him I wouldn't take a shot past 500 unless it was anchored in cement, and there wasn't any wind. I HATE tracking game.

 

[powderbrake]

So seems about every other time I go to the public range I end up having the same conversation with some one. I'll be testing loads and pulling targets to have someone next to me look over and at my targets start talking about me shooting groups. I usually have to explain what I'm looking for in a good groups ( basically just saying most mean I want a clover leaf or all five under a 1" group @100yd) which usually seems to irk most deer hunters the wrong way .They'll poke their chests out and say something along the lines of " Well I don't shoot paper past zeroing ! I'm a hunter I shoot live game not targets!" Like what do y'all say to that ? I always just kinda shrug like "mmmmmkay that's neat." and go back to testing. Like I hunt and I'm sorry but to me the shots I see most average hunters make dont really fill me with a ton of admiration. Like I personally like to put my round exactly where I want as best as possible and most of these guys are perfectly happy if there within 4" of the bull @100yd so idk lol.

I believe you handled it correctly.
There is no good reason to argue or give sarcastic replies to another guy with a gun in his hands, particularly at a public range. You were there to improve groups, not to argue with strangers.

 

[CJ6]

So seems about every other time I go to the public range I end up having the same conversation with some one. I'll be testing loads and pulling targets to have someone next to me look over and at my targets start talking about me shooting groups. I usually have to explain what I'm looking for in a good groups ( basically just saying most mean I want a clover leaf or all five under a 1" group @100yd) which usually seems to irk most deer hunters the wrong way .They'll poke their chests out and say something along the lines of " Well I don't shoot paper past zeroing ! I'm a hunter I shoot live game not targets!" Like what do y'all say to that ? I always just kinda shrug like "mmmmmkay that's neat." and go back to testing. Like I hunt and I'm sorry but to me the shots I see most average hunters make dont really fill me with a ton of admiration. Like I personally like to put my round exactly where I want as best as possible and most of these guys are perfectly happy if there within 4" of the bull @100yd so idk lol.

Sad....But so true.

 

[ebb]

They don't shoot paper cause they don't want a record of how bad they shoot. If there is no "printed " record it's just my word against yours. Kinda the way politicians do.

 

[rijndael]

Honestly, as long as the other people at the range are safe, I couldn't care less what they do.

 

[ebb]

If they could keep to them selves I agree.

 

[Bill Norris]

Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue I guess. As mentioned above most of the guys that are allergic to targets (records) simply can't shoot well enough to satisfy themselves so they rather not even bother but proclaim all grades of accuracy skills.

 

[joshb]

One day a few years ago, I was at the range shooting groups with a 6br. A guy set up next to me, went down range and hung a few gallon jugs from the cross bars at 100. He put some holes in them and laughed when one exploded from a hit. He looked over at me and told me to shoot the last one hanging. “See if you can hit it.” he says. I took careful aim and shot the string the jug was hanging on.
He got real quiet.

 

[jelenko]

When I'm at the range, I like to focus on what I'm doing. When others come over to chew the fat, without being rude, I tell them I'm needing to focus. Since I'm still competing, I mention I need to get ready for a match.

On marksmanship - I've seen guys at 100 yards go through 50 rounds without hitting paper. As soon as I find out they are not hitting paper, I suggest they go down to 25 yards to at least get a hit and start zeroing. Only one so far has taken my suggestion. The others go through their stash of ammo and leave - without ever getting a hit.

 

[jds holler]

I actually love pie plate shooting, for hunting rifles. If done responsibly, it tells a guy what your hunting range should be whether shooting a sling-shot, bow, 30-30, or 28 Nosler.

And I don't necessarily believe that because I can nail a pie plate at 600 yards with the 28 Nosler on the sand bags, that I ought to shoot a deer from the shooting sticks at that range. jd

 

[rebel]

Since we all here are presumably are better than average shots ( I would say much better, owning a store and operating a range, "average" has degraded over the last 50 years.) it brings up a point I had to make about my club that I doubt is unique. I generally go and shoot alone at my club. So do the other more precision oriented guys. Naturally, at club functions, I tend to talk to those I have something in common with. A few years back, I started hearing folks calling us " those uppity benchrest guys. I had just completed my term on the BOD and had no idea folks thought that 4-5 guys were uppity. My club unfortunately is very click oriented. Shotgun folks gripe if the rifle or pistol range gets a project approved and they don't. The CMP guys can't stand us Bench rest folks, The Bench rest bunch is apparently clueless, like me, and come shoot or do their workdays and go home. It was only until some of the CMP crowd started jumping on precision shooters for not racking their 10-20 lb. rifles when the range was safe that you heard anything. It was only then that I figured out that any one group of shooters will not agree on everything and even look down upon certain shooting groups because "they can't do what we do." "Sure, you can shoot a tight group at 300 yards, you got that big Nightforce on there, try that with open sights." ( I have actually had that said to me.) My general comment to folks like that is - "Do you smell that? Damn is that you? Jeez man. ", and then walk away. A bit off topic,sorry.

 

[ckaberna]

Shooting groups is one thing, killing deer is another.

I agree that shooting tight groups is what we should want to do and I am in this category. I have also known people that had pie plate accuracy at 100 and killed the hell out of deer, but at least they were at the bench shooting a pie plate.

That’s why they like to use .300 magnums on these 150 LB whitetails around here, somewhat compensates for a bad shot.

 

[Oso]

My brother-in-law has some bad habits. For him going to the range is a chore… shooting targets is boring. If at 100 yards you can cover the shot group with your hand then it is a bullseye.

He used to be a high school baseball coach. I asked him his thoughts on “what if” he had a pitcher or batter who refused to practice during the week and only wanted to play during a game. Would you start those guys in a playoff game? Answer was “definitely not”. Then why would you take time and expense of hunting without practicing your shooting skills.

Being a skilled outdoorsman starts with being an ethical hunter, which starts with building/maintaining your skills with your weapon. Don’t shoot unless you are certain of the shot. You best shot is at the range. If you can’t do it there then it goes south fast in the field.

 

[Dave M.]

I have a Savage model 11 in 243, it always puts the first 2 shots 1" high, 1" right. And I mean always. So, I aim accordingly. It is strictly a hunting rifle and I know what it does, so for me it is OK.
Now my BR guns, well that is a different story.

PS I usually don't listen to the guys that show up twice a year. Once to sight in and once to see why they missed.

Lol.

 

[Dave M.]

That’s why they like to use .300 magnums on these 150 LB whitetails around here, somewhat compensates for a bad shot.

A lot of people in Michigan use those too.

 

[tangocharlie]

‘They’ are not doing the same thing we are doing. ‘They’ can be both annoying and distracting. But, as gun owners and shooters, we are all paddling the same boat. And - like it or not - we are about to be paddling upstream against a torrent. There is an old adage that ends, “divided we fall.” Patience and a kind word may be our key to uniting.

 

[Dave M.]

That’s why they like to use .300 magnums on these 150 LB whitetails around here, somewhat compensates for a bad shot.

No joke here, I have a buddy that deer hunts with a 416 Weatherby Magnum and 350g Barnes TSX. Best part is 95% of the areas we hunt in northern Michigan are fairly heavily wooded and almost every shot under 150 yards. Thing sounds like a cannon going off and from 100 yards it blows a baseball size exit hole.
Dave