hunting subsonic???

[Shawnba67]

No free lunch I suppose. Would probably help a little though. Might need windshield wipers on the glasses. The other problem with the double barrel (which is great, by the way) is that it sort of negates the point of subsonics. Perhaps make the stock into a very long spring. Or make it out of lead.

Or put an extended fork on it to push against the tree your leaning on!
Or a bipod with plow feet!

 

[alinwa]

Thats probably the worst elk hunting set up I have ever heard of!!! LOL! You"ve got to be kidding me right??? Does it shoot from a tripod and have a pulley crank to draw it? Gotta weigh a ton too.

I live in Montana with one if the highest elk populations in North America and have bow hunted them for many years. Trust me when I tell you that the wild contraption you described is not needed at all. A good quality fixed blade 100gr broadhead with a 250 grain carbon arrow with a properly placed shot will easily get the job done by on a bull elk EVERY time. Doesnt even have to be screaming fast. No amount of energy from an arrow is going to make up for a poorly placed shot on ANY animal. Anyone who thinks they need anything more is living in a dream and has never killed an animal with a bow.

I shoot a 340 IBO bow at only 62 lbs with a 29" draw and 85 percent let off. Why? Because anyone who has actually bow hunted elk and had a bull within shooting range knows you may need to hold at full draw for long time as the animal approaches your shooting position. Totally different than hunting deer from a tree stand. All ground and pound. Their eyes have unbelievable peripheral vision. If you can see their eyeball from any direction, they can see your movement. You try to draw a bow when at any point when they are looking remotely in your direction, they will be outta there faster than a bullet!

I do most things differently than most people...... and holding 42 lb for 10 min isn't hard, in some regards it's easier than trying to hold your bow up that long with your 85% setup.

Packing 250lb for days is hard too..... 15,000ft of elevation in a day is hard..... elk hunting is hard.

Elmer Keith designed the 333 OKH for elk back when everyone considered it overkill because in the real world "properly placed" is easier said than done. Right now there are folks all over the innernet advocating the 6.5 for elk.

I don't.

 

[orbitup]

I have a 44 mag Handi-rifle that is cut down to 16" and threaded. I run it suppressed shooting 300gn SP bullets. 606 ft/lbs @ 100yards.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Packing 250lb for days is hard too..... 15,000ft of elevation in a day is hard..... elk hunting is hard.

And the Oscar goes tooooo...."alinwa" (applause!)

 

[alinwa]

And the Oscar goes tooooo...."alinwa" (applause!)

I'm not sure what this "Oscar" implies?? But if you haven't spent two days bringing meat out from one animal.... if you haven't packed 250lb for days..... if you HAVEN'T covered 15mi or 15,000 ft in a day with a 45lb pack,

Then you must be one of them rich city kids that gets packed in.

Or just live in the areas and hunt ranches, get yer meat out with wheels.

If you haven't cursed the head, or ripped it off and flung it down thru the tag alder......

Then you aren't a public-land bowhunter.

To me "elk hunting" is packing in 2wks worth of gear to set up a camp from 2-10mi from the truck then hunt 2-4 day trips out of spike camp. With 45lb on.... that's why I don't do it anymore. It's too much like work.

 

[alinwa]

I owe the innernet, and Ledd Slinger, an apology.....

I got caught up in the moment, got defensive about my antique bow and etc..... got caught up in hyperbole about how hard elk hunting is.

I live in elk country. And even though I haven't hunted in years, I deal with a lot of people who get in 'wayyy over their heads, not realizing what a huge commitment it really is. And IT IS brutally hard.

period.

We hunted with a week on our backs, always. Food for a week, clothes and shelter etc.... we typically planned on 2-4 days out, camped on herds or ridgetops but but maintained food for longer. You get meat on the ground on day 4 and you'll be out of Rocky Mt House and GORP, living on instant oatmeal and ramen all the way out.

I spent lots of money to pack light, 36-40lb hunting pack. 45lb is typical and a friend of mine who's in his early 50's mentioned this year that he was running 52lb hunting local. And by "hunting pack" I mean you live in it. You shoot in it all year and learn to move/shoot with a pack on.

And I have covered 15miles or 15,000 ft of elevation in a day, AND have packed over 200lb and many times it's taken more than a day to get an animal out. But not altogether-the-same-day-every-day like my prior post seems to indicate. A typical hunt will be 4 guys and once the meat's all divvied the typical pack doing it our way was 135-165lb depending on the animal and whether we boned the meat. And very few get out the same day. If it's local the code is to hang the quarters, pack out the head/cape and whatever you can carry with who ya' brung, get back to the truck around midnite, get into phone range and text out "elk down" and guys all take off work and converge to bring out the meat.

But 4 guys in the woods..... 3-6-10 miles from the truck, it's 150lb packs and spend a nite most of the time. Or 2 nites if it's a bad one. And the shooter gets the head..... it's amazing how many guys opt for "European Mount" when they've got to pack a cape..... or make plans to buy the cape LOL!

Sorry to have taken my own post off track....


Anybody else pushing huge bullets in light guns and have ideas about how to make the recoil bearable, I'm still looking for ideas



And Ed Hubel...... please don't ask me to just "get used to recoil"...... your stuff is UNSANE!!

 

[spencerhenry]

Sorry, but the 15,000 feet of vertical and some other claims are just plain B.S.

I hunt archery elk, I hunt the high country around Aspen. I hunt harder than anyone I know, and the most vertical I have ever done for more than a day or two is 4000. That's a tough day in steep country at 12,000' average. I hunted sheep a few years back, I put on 300 miles on foot scouting and hunting, a pair of boots never lasts more than one season.

And I have killed plenty of elk, I think I am at around 40 or so right now, I can't recall them all. I have several bulls on the wall that are record book, plenty that aren't and I have shot many antlerless. I am a smaller guy, 28" draw 70#, my arrows with 125gr broadheads run just under 300 fps. I have shot clean through many elk. You don't need massive heavy arrows, nor super high speeds. Arrows do not kill by energy, they cut. An arrow in the rib cage often blows right on out the other side, sometimes not, but it doesn't matter. An arrow in the lungs and its not going far at all. An arrow to heavy bone is not going to penetrate enough to matter, regardless of how heavy the arrow is and what's on the end of it.

 

[spencerhenry]

4 guys with 150 pound packs each to pack out one elk? Are you packing out the gut pile and all the bones too?
The largest elk I have ever killed, by body size, yielded 289 pounds of boned out meat, plus the cape and the antlers. Cape and antlers are heavy, say 60 pounds, say the meat was 300, that's still only 360, split 4 ways that's only 90 pounds each. That bull was 5.5 miles in and 2700 vertical net change, last mile no trail, my brother and I and my mom packed out one load, two days later I went back for the last rear quarter, boned out and trimmed, that quarter was 64 pounds. No pack was over 110 pounds.

Weigh the packs, they are rarely as heavy as someone guesses!

 

[Ledd Slinger]

No doubt 'Spencerhenry' has actually hunted elk in the mountains. Everything he says is absolutely correct.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Sorry, but the 15,000 feet of vertical and some other claims are just plain B.S.

I hunt archery elk, I hunt the high country around Aspen. I hunt harder than anyone I know, and the most vertical I have ever done for more than a day or two is 4000. That's a tough day in steep country at 12,000' average. I hunted sheep a few years back, I put on 300 miles on foot scouting and hunting, a pair of boots never lasts more than one season.

And I have killed plenty of elk, I think I am at around 40 or so right now, I can't recall them all. I have several bulls on the wall that are record book, plenty that aren't and I have shot many antlerless. I am a smaller guy, 28" draw 70#, my arrows with 125gr broadheads run just under 300 fps. I have shot clean through many elk. You don't need massive heavy arrows, nor super high speeds. Arrows do not kill by energy, they cut. An arrow in the rib cage often blows right on out the other side, sometimes not, but it doesn't matter. An arrow in the lungs and its not going far at all. An arrow to heavy bone is not going to penetrate enough to matter, regardless of how heavy the arrow is and what's on the end of it.

Yeah it's a absolute miracle that Ted Neugent has ever been able to kill anything in his hunting career. His bows are only set to a draw weight of 50 lbs with lightweight carbon arrows and 100gr broadheads! Amazing the arrows don't just bounce right off!!! Lol

 

[JFrank]

My Raineer is around 14000 ft

 

[Ledd Slinger]

But even Mount Everest only has 13,000 ft of rise from it's valley floor.

Mount Denali is the highest peak in the US at 20,320 ft (Alaska). It doesnt have the highest elevation in the world, but it does have the greatest rise in elevation in the world. It shoots up 17,000 ft from the valley below. So it appears Mr. 'Alinwa' has scaled mountains bigger than Everest in search of the elusive wapiti...And did it in all in one day with a 250 lb pack! Lol.

Ok, ok, I'll stop now. That's my last poke. I'm done with this thread now. Carry on with subsonic rifles for hunting

 

[Rustytigwire]

Spook and Wedgy!
those are big enough to take out a charging Volkswagen!!

 

[alinwa]

Thanks guys, I deserve all that.....



"15,000 ft of elevation" is travel, not height. If you're camped at 4000ft, head out and up over a ridge 500ft above you and a half-mile away... and down 2-3000ft into an area and hunt drainages upriver for a day you are covering a lot of elevation up and down. I always considered "elevation" to be a lot more work than miles. One of the places we hunted for several years was pretty much exactly that, the crest of the ridge into the drainage was at just over 5200ft, we were camped down below and some days would drop over and down to even as low as 1500 along the river. Humping up river, over 3-4 finger ridges, topping out well above camp because climbing a steep 1200 ft to get to the trail was worth it and coming back in a couple-three trail miles and a couple thousand feet back down the ridgetop and into camp..... it's a whole lot more than 4000ft.

A few times doing this, heading out at 4AM to make a couple thousand feet of elevation by daylite...... hunt all day and drag back in 3-4mi in the dark..... this is when we started packing in and staying in. So we COULD just hunt just a few thousand ft of elevation in a day. I like sidehilling. But a few hrs of sidehill with a moderate up/down can get you 1000-1500ft of elevation too. And you've got to pay it back somewhere.

You'se guys talking about 14000ft of up??? Quoting mountain heights? Sounds like stuff from a book...I guess I don't get that. That's just theory, 1-way. "Elevation", to a hunter is up and back down, or down and back up. I'm lazy, I hate to lose elevation so I try hunt up..... but sometimes elk bail over an edge and all bets are off. You end up 3000ft down. If you're lucky. I've bailed into a 1000ft drop a half hour before dark.....not just once. And if the bugle fades you can be down to 1500ft before you even hear him raking....

And you gotta' come back up to get back to where you started. In and out is 3000ft of elevation. The hill behind my house is over 1000ft, taking a a Sunday afternoon walk up and down it is 2000ft.... might take an hour, strolling..... with the wife and kids..... you guys only hunting 4000 ft in a day aren't really covering much ground.

And anybody who thinks "down" isn't elevation has just never done it. I've had to leave a trip because the "down" had me poppin'..... up sucks ass but it isn't as hard on the body.

We once walked in and set up 11 miles in. 10 of them on trail. I left a couple days early, came out with my "stuff".... left my food for the others, couple 20oz of water because, 2 cricks...... 65lb on in under 4 hrs, made 3.2 miles per hour..... jogged part of the time.... Singing most of the way. (I don't care if any of you get that.... maybe you've never been there?)

Again, 4000ft in a day??? This is The Big Time?? Coming out to go home was 1000ft up and 2000ft down..... in 11 miles....... in 4 hrs..... and I don't really know how much incidental up and down in between..... probably actually made 4000ft that trip LOL

As I said..... either/or..... Longest day I remember was 21 trail miles. Elevation?? .... I'm guessing. Back then our GPS's didn't log elevation, we wore watches with altimeters and carried maps. But seriously, an afternoon with my grandkids hiking Bluff Creek Trail my kid's watch logged over 2200ft of elevation..... 4000ft?? In a DAY??

As far as pack weights.... Again. We hunted with 50lb already in the packs. Some of my buddies still do, one of them mentioned that his pack this year was back up to 52lb. He hunted the Siouxon with a 52lb pack on every day....plus a few pounds of bow and water.... And packing out isn't always 4 guys. And an elk isn't all quarters... and it isn't always boned.... and I've packed bone out because depending on conditions sometimes boning you end up with bloody meat because it's all wadded up, can't drain properly.


And yeahh.... we weighed our packs when we got home. Even claimed they'd dried out and lost weight driving home....

 

[alinwa]

4 guys with 150 pound packs each to pack out one elk? Are you packing out the gut pile and all the bones too?
The largest elk I have ever killed, by body size, yielded 289 pounds of boned out meat, plus the cape and the antlers. Cape and antlers are heavy, say 60 pounds, say the meat was 300, that's still only 360, split 4 ways that's only 90 pounds each. That bull was 5.5 miles in and 2700 vertical net change, last mile no trail, my brother and I and my mom packed out one load, two days later I went back for the last rear quarter, boned out and trimmed, that quarter was 64 pounds. No pack was over 110 pounds.

Weigh the packs, they are rarely as heavy as someone guesses!

2700 ft of vertical net change had to be done both ways...... and "net"??? ...... does that mean you already figgered all the up and down? That's not steep country... sounds like straight trails, not even switchbacked.... still gotta be over 6000ft in and out?

moms are tough

 

[alinwa]

Yeah it's a absolute miracle that Ted Neugent has ever been able to kill anything in his hunting career. His bows are only set to a draw weight of 50 lbs with lightweight carbon arrows and 100gr broadheads! Amazing the arrows don't just bounce right off!!! Lol

Tedly's a flatlander LOL Talk about Chuck Adams (still shooting 625gr arrows, ALUMINUM ones...) Or Shockey or Burnworth.....

 

[alinwa]

4 guys with 150 pound packs each to pack out one elk? Are you packing out the gut pile and all the bones too?
The largest elk I have ever killed, by body size, yielded 289 pounds of boned out meat, plus the cape and the antlers. Cape and antlers are heavy, say 60 pounds, say the meat was 300, that's still only 360, split 4 ways that's only 90 pounds each. That bull was 5.5 miles in and 2700 vertical net change, last mile no trail, my brother and I and my mom packed out one load, two days later I went back for the last rear quarter, boned out and trimmed, that quarter was 64 pounds. No pack was over 110 pounds.

Weigh the packs, they are rarely as heavy as someone guesses!

BTW, the day you shot that bull I bet you put on 10,000ft of elevation It took near on 6,000 just to walk in and out with the meat... Trail in... hunt some draws.... run the bull......dunno if that hunt was normal for you, or a lot.

 

[TimS]

Not a heavy gun by any standard. Felt recoil is not bad at all. Make sure that your scope is mounted well.

Have added the suppressor since this photo was taken.

YEAHHH BAYBIEEEE!!!!

This is what I posted this thread for.... THANK YOU GUYS who're posting about the big stuff!

I'm not dis'ing on the 30's, they're fun, but I live in elk country and I'm looking for input on stuff that lays a trail of carnage. I have some of the "big" AR's.... a 458 SOCOM and a 50Beowulf but as Wedgy points out above THE LOADS I SHOOT will tear AR UP!! I've spent time on the phone with the guys who came up with the SOCOM (Teppu Jutsu, Tromix Buddy already done tol' me "we've gotten op to 450gr") and Beowulf (Bill Alexander) and they've both told me my stuff will flat out bust an AR apart.

So Spook..... that 950 cast, you must be shooting that in a heavy gun? something 12lb or more? Or are you seriously that manly?

And yes, those Lehigh bullets are cool...... not as accurate as I want, but cool

TimS... Again, bolt action?? 570's? How heavy the gun and how hellacious the recoil?

In my case, I was just blown away by the recoil....I started by modifying several rifle cases, tried the Beowulf and ended up making a shouldered round from 338 Lapua cases. I put together a fairly nimble hunting package, tried a bunch of powders, working up loads with 14 different powders from Bullseye/Red Dot/Clays stuff up through the 4350/Varget stuff and into Retumbo/H1000 ..... the slow powders MAINLY trying to up the volume, the waste gas, to try get my muzzle brakes to actuate.

NO luck.

Pushing 750-900gr to 1050 just H A M M E R S me in a light gun....... I'm worried about losing a retina.

Back in one of my gunstore jobs I had a boss who was a cop. We used to shoot "3 Inch Police Buckshot" loads he brought us through 870's for "fun" and even had a guy get a hernia, for real, from shooting one of these loads thru a Mossberg 500 pistol-gripped thingy "breaching a door"...... those loads KICKED. I don't even know where they came from or what they were...... but you put one of those in an H&R Topper and it'll maybe feel like my subsonic 50 (BTW I named it the "Fifty Fart" cuz..... well stand to the side and lissen...)


Sooo, to you'se guys rocking these big dawgz..... tell me about recoil.......

-stock design? (this I haven't messed with)
-thicker/wider recoil pad? (this isn't the whole problem in my case.... it doesn't BRUISE, it give me medulla elongatus, makes me walk like a chikken)
-muzzle brakes don't do anything
-just deal with it?




thanks

 

[alinwa]

View attachment 1078542
Not a heavy gun by any standard. Felt recoil is not bad at all. Make sure that your scope is mounted well.

Have added the suppressor since this photo was taken.

Lehigh's and about 1300 ftlb??
Yeahh, that's gonna put the hurt on some meat.....

 

[TimS]

Lehigh's and about 1300 ftlb??
Yeahh, that's gonna put the hurt on some meat.....

Didn’t get the suppressor in time for deer season and I have the smokeless ML barrel installed right now.

After hunting season I’ll tune the load with the suppressor. Without it I was 1050 fps with good groups.