Hunting lease shooter proficiency Q

[Chiquita]

It's been my experience that there isn't one out of ten "off the shelf rifles" with "off the shelf ammo" that would make that standard, even with an experienced bench rest shooter. jd

Possible that my requirement is too harsh. Based on other comments, I guess when on a deer hunt you don't take long shots shots past 300 yards, hence the comments 2-3 MOA rifle?

When the shot is within 300 yards then the 2 MOA will be OK. But past that point it is not a good idea.

I have never had the opportunity to go hunting with a knowledgable hunter, I wish I did.

 

[tominboise]

One standard that could be used is the 8" paper plate. Hunters are allowed to shoot a deer as far as they can keep 3 shots on a paper plate. For some, that might be 50 yards, for others 500. The kill zone on a deer or other big game animal is at least 8".

Also, the shooting should be from a similar rest that they will be using in the stand, whether that's standing and resting over a 2X4 or whatever.

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

Eliminate guests entirely. Or have a fee to bring a guest. As well as limit how many guests can be brought by each member.

Our club is limited to only 2 guest hunts per member. The kill comes off the members bag limit. And we charge a price for the guest hunt. BUT our membership includes direct family members. (Which I personally don't like).

Then apply the other shooting test qualification rules and deer target training that have been suggested.

 

[hogpatrol]

Similar issue, took a buddy deer hunting three times letting him have first dibs on any deer. First time, 20' treestand, he misses at 35 yards bullet hits a branch in the tree, second time he misses at 130 yards, third time,125 yard bad hit and the deer is an unrecovered runner. Realizing he's good on paper off a bench but not at fur, am going with him to the range and have him shoot at a full size deer target at various angles, Not taking him hunting again until I see five consecutive shots in the kill zone in various positions like kneeling and sitting and off of bags or bipod. Having said this, I'd make them qualify, at least three shots in a deer target that doesn't have a kill zone delineated on it, just a picture of a deer. From this chair, wounding animals qualifies one for not being invited again. OP, you could go one step further and say if the guest or guest's sponsor screw up, you're both gone for good.

 

[David Milisock]

Howdy, this may be a long one but I would appreciate any ideas.

My family runs a deer lease in south Texas, we manage the land for the owner and take care of all the leasing operations. The issue we are having is members of the lease are brining in guests (which is totally allowed), the issue is that these guests are shooting and injuring deer due to poor shots. Just this last year we had about 4 instances of deer shot but never found and we would like to prevent this. I came up with an idea of some sort of shooting proficiency test they must shoot first before they can take anything off of the lease.

I was thinking it could be shot off a bench, since we normally shoot out of stands or high racks. Maybe just the use of a front bag? The shots at the lease range from 50-250 yards at the furthest. I was thinking the requirement should be to hold a 2-3 moa group at 100 with all shots falling inside of a 4” center circle. This shows the rifle can shoot minute of deer, and that it is at least sighted in properly.

Let me know what you think and what ideas you would implement. The biggest thing we are trying to do is to limit the amount of deer that needlessly suffer due to poor shots.

Thank you.

I used to work at what in those days was called a regulated hunting farm. Your problem is as old as the business of guided hunting and leased farm hunting.

All shooters should be required to check zero on their firearms before entering the field and you could require hits within 6" of point of aim at the ranges over 200 yards. You also could rent firearms.

I don't know how your business is structured so it's hard to give reasonable advice. However you may consider setting standards for the areas a person might hunt. If you can limit them to stands or areas where they would be limited to 50 to 200 yards.

A few times a month I was required to accompany the hunting party because of safety. This of course required additional fees. I don't know your clientele but that's a good revenue source.

The place I worked for raised deer, pheasants, quail and had an profitable client base, huge law firms, celebrities and corporate executives. Some were ok people some were not. I mostly worked with those who needed support.

Good tips! I spent all day with one dude, I got my day's pay and a $500 tip, not bad for the mid 1960's. I showed him how to stalk, set up his shot and how to dress the deer. Sell service.

WATCH YOUR ASS!

 

[TC260]

Our club is limited to only 2 guest hunts per member. The kill comes off the members bag limit. And we charge a price for the guest hunt. BUT our membership includes direct family members. (Which I personally don't like).

I've seen that direct family member thing abused. There's 6 paying members but half of them bring an extra person every weekend so you're paying high dues for limited hunters but actually has higher hunting pressure than you're paying for.

Back on topic, I think trigger happy guests is inevitable. I've been a member of a lease but on public land currently. Even though I've been on a lease before and hunt public all the time, when I get an invite to a lease now it feels different than when I was a member. I spend a lot of time in the woods, and if I get a little more excited to be on a good lease, I can only imagine what a hunter that only gets to hunt once a year, or every few years is feeling. When you're there every weekend and know the area inside and out there's no pressure to shoot. If you have one weekend for the year it's tough to remain calm. Just human nature. Write the club rules accordingly

 

[jepp2]

I have never had the opportunity to go hunting with a knowledgable hunter, I wish I did.

I think a zero check is reasonable to confirm basic accuracy. Guns get banged around if flying, things happen. But I think something else is needed.

As others have mentioned, buck fever, taking an ill advised shot all happen. If you instituted a policy that a wounded and not recovered animal, is considered filling the tag the person has, will make folks more mindful before they pull the trigger. And if someone lies about wounding an animal, they are forever blocked from returning.

 

[Dgd6mm]

3 moa at 250 yards is too big, especially on an angled Deer. You've been given some very good suggestions here. I would suggest that they be honest and aware of their abilities in shooting to harvest a Deer and know their limitations.

 

[markT]

I started killing deer a few years ago. The place I hunt has a neighboring property that has allowed some no shooting son b’s to hunt. I have seen many a wounded and found dead deer. The issue I see and what I went thru is the stands people hunt from. Usually some type of cross bar for a rest. What about the rear of the stock? I fixed all my stands with proper shooting tables so it duplicates shooting from a bench. I don’t know your set up etc and it takes work to build “proper” shooting houses. IMO
Yes, people need to zero etc. but if you want real sportsman make them shoot from a ladder stand and hit a pie plate. Real world conditions. That will tell you all you need to know.

 

[Clancy]

I manage a lot of land and we have a farm of our own. Guests can come, but their harvest only replaces the bag limit of the tenant. It is not in addition to it.

One drop of blood equals a dead deer, and that deer is part of that person’s limit. Guests have to show that they and their rifle are capable of respectable shooting at the intended distance.

I won’t personally hunt with or on the same property with people that I’m not related or extremely close to. We spend about 25K a year feeding supplemental feed to animals. It’s not worth the trouble of allowing random people on the land.

 

[Mauser06]

I don't know the bag limits in Texas...but a guest that is there for a day or 2 isn't as likely to care if "that counts against their limit"

I think a shooting proficiency is definitely a good idea. You don't know who is coming and what they are or aren't capable of. Sell it as a "zero check" and explain that they have to be able to hit whatever you deem suitable.

Then, hold the members accountable for their guests. If bag limits are generous, institute a fine for unrecovered deer. If it's a 1 buck type of deal, that's the members deer for the year.

Or, stop allowing guests. Or charge for guests. And make it sorta high. The member isn't likely going to bring rifraf if it's going to cost them money or opportunities for themselves.


I just joined a lease with a few guys from the range. That was one of the first bridges we crossed....you can bring whoever you want. But, if they kill a buck, that's YOUR buck. If you kill a buck on the property, you aren't bringing anyone for the season. We didn't do anything about lost deer...but it should be a non-issue. If their kids or whoever start loosing several deer....we'll hash it out.

We're a 1 buck state and our property isn't huge. Charging for guests in our case, wouldn't help anything that's why we went with the rule of 1 buck per member.

 

[ben-o]

Everyone should check their zero before hunting. I think a marksmanship test is a little severe, though. Then everyone hears a speech about what where to aim on the deer, range, not shooting through brush, etc.

Also, talk over what to do after the shot - like paying attention to how the deer reacts to the shot, where the crosshairs were, where is the exit wound, when to get out of the stand after shooting, etc. Even the basic stuff like paying attention to which direction the deer ran is easy to overlook in the heat of the moment.

New hunters, kids, etc. should hunt with an experienced partner until you trust them 100%.

 

[Bamban]

I think that is a great idea. Furthermore, I would require the rifle and shooter to pass a 1 MOA test from 100 to 500 yards and all tests to be on a cold bore shot.

Wow, 1 moa cold bore at 500 when the farthest they shoot is 250. For non regular shooter that's a stretch.

 

[TC260]

I just joined a lease with a few guys from the range. That was one of the first bridges we crossed....you can bring whoever you want. But, if they kill a buck, that's YOUR buck. If you kill a buck on the property, you aren't bringing anyone for the season. We didn't do anything about lost deer...but it should be a non-issue. If their kids or whoever start loosing several deer....we'll hash it out.

We're a 1 buck state and our property isn't huge. Charging for guests in our case, wouldn't help anything that's why we went with the rule of 1 buck per member.

I would bet that's going to solve pretty much any problems right off the bat. If a guest's buck counted as my one for the year, I wouldn't be inviting anyone unless they're willing to only shoot does. Which on some leases I've been on, they could use guests to remove a few extra does. Sometimes regular members are reluctant to do it.

 

[dryhumor]

I doubt the average hunter shoots more than 20-30 rounds a year. And some of those do it at whatever range is close, with whatever ammo is cheapest or the most hyped up. And it is possible that the last round they fired was in the center just because they happened to jerk or wiggle it in. They did it just before the season when the temps are quite different from the temps when or where the hunt occurs. They were relaxed, and not trying to control an adrenaline dump, (also known as a rack attack).

Id go with the trophy fees, missed deer fines, the quotas, etc. but why not require a quest to show up with 60 rounds of whatever ammo they chose to hunt with. Put a good shooter behind their rifle, and see if the combo shoots. If it doesn’t, mentor the shooter with his rifle and ammo till he shoots as good or maybe better than the good shooter with his ammo. If the combo shoots well, leave three rounds unfired for them to hunt with. It’s a win win for the long term.

If the combo doesn’t shoot well, but the shooter seems to at least match the good shooter, put the loaner rifle that shoots bug holes in his hand. “Here, try this one….” Again a win win for the long term.

 

[jds holler]

I love the paper plate test. I don't care if you're shooting a rifle, bow, slingshot, or even a shotgun; the evidence is irrefutable. If you can stand off-hand and put holes in your plate at a given range, you're good to go. If you can't, you'd better shorten up your range or get a rest. Fifty yards, or five hundred yards, the paper plate don't lie.

Just remember that most folks shoot better at a paper plate than they do on an animal because of the old "aim small, miss small" thing. Inexperienced hunters especially, often shoot at the "whole critter" rather than pick a spot.

This is pretty important stuff. Ending your hunt with a bad shot is one thing, and a lost animal is a much worse thing. jd

 

[Toddmack]

I fear the day that I have to join/pay a "hunting club", although I fear everywhere is headed in that direction.

I agree with making them shoot to a certain measured degree before letting them hunt.

 

[Treerat-sniper]

I would love to have an accuracy standard at our deer camp but at least half the "hunters" wouldn't make the curve.

 

[Jtate]

Have any of you all worked at a public shooting range ? Bring a lawn chair out to the local rifle range the weekend before the opening of deer season, have a sit down. I guarantee if you have never done this, you have underestimated the stupidity of your fellow man.

 

[DiRTY DOG]

Have any of you all worked at a public shooting range ? Bring a lawn chair out to the local rifle range the weekend before the opening of deer season, have a sit down. I guarantee if you have never done this, you have underestimated the stupidity of your fellow man.

At our local range, the typical guy zero'ing for deer season is lucky to hold 5-6 inch 3-shot groups at 100 yards from the bench. I'd bet half of 'em couldn't hit a paper plate at all at 200 yards.