Hunting lease shooter proficiency Q

[tthomp302]

Howdy, this may be a long one but I would appreciate any ideas.

My family runs a deer lease in south Texas, we manage the land for the owner and take care of all the leasing operations. The issue we are having is members of the lease are brining in guests (which is totally allowed), the issue is that these guests are shooting and injuring deer due to poor shots. Just this last year we had about 4 instances of deer shot but never found and we would like to prevent this. I came up with an idea of some sort of shooting proficiency test they must shoot first before they can take anything off of the lease.

I was thinking it could be shot off a bench, since we normally shoot out of stands or high racks. Maybe just the use of a front bag? The shots at the lease range from 50-250 yards at the furthest. I was thinking the requirement should be to hold a 2-3 moa group at 100 with all shots falling inside of a 4” center circle. This shows the rifle can shoot minute of deer, and that it is at least sighted in properly.

Let me know what you think and what ideas you would implement. The biggest thing we are trying to do is to limit the amount of deer that needlessly suffer due to poor shots.

Thank you.

 

[SSL]

Howdy, this may be a long one but I would appreciate any ideas.

My family runs a deer lease in south Texas, we manage the land for the owner and take care of all the leasing operations. The issue we are having is members of the lease are brining in guests (which is totally allowed), the issue is that these guests are shooting and injuring deer due to poor shots. Just this last year we had about 4 instances of deer shot but never found and we would like to prevent this. I came up with an idea of some sort of shooting proficiency test they must shoot first before they can take anything off of the lease.

I was thinking it could be shot off a bench, since we normally shoot out of stands or high racks. Maybe just the use of a front bag? The shots at the lease range from 50-250 yards at the furthest. I was thinking the requirement should be to hold a 2-3 moa group at 100 with all shots falling inside of a 4” center circle. This shows the rifle can shoot minute of deer, and that it is at least sighted in properly.

Let me know what you think and what ideas you would implement. The biggest thing we are trying to do is to limit the amount of deer that needlessly suffer due to poor shots.

Thank you.

I think your ideas are reasonable. It might help cut down on the 'guests' that no one wants to say "no" to because they are friends, but not really hunters. If members have a problem with the whole thing, they probably won't be hard to replace, knowing how competitive leases are in Texas. Some fool's ego isn't worth wounded game.

 

[Chiquita]

I think that is a great idea. Furthermore, I would require the rifle and shooter to pass a 1 MOA test from 100 to 500 yards and all tests to be on a cold bore shot.

 

[jds holler]

My experience with folks who don't shoot much is that you may have to relax your standards up to 4 or 5 MOA. You're gonna see a lot of guns and ammo which will do well to preform at 3 MOA with perfect shooting technique; and your shooters won't have perfect shooting skills.

I've been working with some friends who aren't "shooters" like most of us on the forum, and the best I've been able to do is make sure they are actually shooting a group, and then make them realize their acceptable range is based on their group size.

I think it's great for you to have a range and standards to let them know "honestly" how they and their rifle are preforming before they hit the fields. jd

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Just tell guests to bring extra ammo, because zero is checked before hunting after traveling. Help shooters that need it.

 

[dellet]

There’s a big difference between having people who shoot good, and having people who take good shots.

I would rather have a 3 MOA shooter who waits for a broadside shot, than 1/8 MOA shooter who wants to slide a bullet through the brush on a running target quartering away.

Really no way to test for that, but a significant fee for lost and wounded animals, might be a start. If you can prove it.

 

[1K6BRA]

You could have a guy that spent thousands of dollars on his hunting rig and can shoot half inch groups at 100 yards “all day long“. But there are a lot of guys that take shots they should not, and lose all sense of better judgment when they have a deer or critter in their sights. The I just have to kill something button goes on (also known in my neck of the Pennsyltucky woods as “auto meat”) and they lose competency. How you weed that out of the system, I have no idea.

 

[jds holler]

I think that is a great idea. Furthermore, I would require the rifle and shooter to pass a 1 MOA test from 100 to 500 yards and all tests to be on a cold bore shot.

It's been my experience that there isn't one out of ten "off the shelf rifles" with "off the shelf ammo" that would make that standard, even with an experienced bench rest shooter. jd

 

[Rsadams]

I would hope any rifle shooter should be able to hold a 3 moa group off a sandbag at 100 yards.... That's seriously not to much to ask even with a $400ish rifle and a low end vortex or Leopold... If a shooter can't be bothered to at least practice enough to hold a 3moa group at 100 yards I am not sure how much I would want them on my property blasting away.....

 

[Gary in MD]

I think that you are definitely doing the right thing. Anyone that balks at that doesn't understand the basics of trying to make a clean kill. If the "Guest" can't shoot accurately enough to meet a reasonable standard as you suggest than they shouldn't be hunting until they can. Some folks are going to need more help than others and some will probably never be able to do it.

 

[TTE]

Just tell guests to bring extra ammo

Tell them ALL to bring extra ammo.
All hunters on your place should have to pass a shooting test

 

[justinp61]

A discussion about deer anatomy may not be a bad idea, where to and not to shoot one. An accurate rifle won't cleanly kill a deer if it isn't shot in the right place.

 

[effendude]

A couple thoughts. First, after having hunted all over, most operations consider a wounded animal a dead animal and the trophy fee is paid. I've experienced this in the USA, Mexico and Africa.

I've hunted a few properties in South Africa that required a proficiency test at 100 yards before you were allowed to hunt, and then always accompanied by a property manager to supervise, in addition to the PH.
In the USA and Mexico, nearly all outfitters I've used required a rifle zero check after traveling.

Not sure how your lease runs but are guests supervised or just placed in stands? If they aren't supervised, even with a marksmanship test, you'll get people taking poor shots. The only way to get some people's attention is through their pocketbook.

Good Luck,
Scott

 

[Larryh128]

A friend ran into the same deal this year, let a guy he knew that had cancer hunt his small property. He killed 1 button buck with his xbow, wounded a good buck then wounded 2 deer opening day of gun season. Then couldn't understand why he wasn't allowed back. He told my friend that I had sighted his rifler in, I don't even know what he shoots. So that tells me he had never ever shot it. Mandatory sight in for all guests.

 

[lawman29]

I don't believe this is about marksmanship.
Generally I would say some individuals get excited etc about controlling emotions. Deer moving when shooting, deer profile to shooter (broadside vs angle vs head on), off hand shooting, distance, proper caliber, etc.
One rule I would put into effect immediately; draw blood - tag is used whether you recover deer or not.

 

[okie]

A couple thoughts. First, after having hunted all over, most operations consider a wounded animal a dead animal and the trophy fee is paid.

A couple thoughts. First, after having hunted all over, most operations consider a wounded animal a dead animal and the trophy fee is paid. I've experienced this in the USA, Mexico and Africa.

I've hunted a few properties in South Africa that required a proficiency test at 100 yards before you were allowed to hunt, and then always accompanied by a property manager to supervise, in addition to the PH.
In the USA and Mexico, nearly all outfitters I've used required a rifle zero check after traveling.

Not sure how your lease runs but are guests supervised or just placed in stands? If they aren't supervised, even with a marksmanship test, you'll get people taking poor shots. The only way to get some people's attention is through their pocketbook.

Good Luck,
Scott

THIS!

 

[okie]

Make it easy on yourself. CHARGE THEM! You could even charge them MORE if they wound one, if you like.

Effendude is correct. Pocketbook gets attention!

I am completely supportive of any marksmanship proof/testing, however you will see that this is YOUR time being spent...

 

[tthomp302]

A couple thoughts. First, after having hunted all over, most operations consider a wounded animal a dead animal and the trophy fee is paid. I've experienced this in the USA, Mexico and Africa.

I've hunted a few properties in South Africa that required a proficiency test at 100 yards before you were allowed to hunt, and then always accompanied by a property manager to supervise, in addition to the PH.
In the USA and Mexico, nearly all outfitters I've used required a rifle zero check after traveling.

Not sure how your lease runs but are guests supervised or just placed in stands? If they aren't supervised, even with a marksmanship test, you'll get people taking poor shots. The only way to get some people's attention is through their pocketbook.

Good Luck,
Scott

We do require that members (people actually signed on to the lease and pay yearly) have to sit with any guests they bring and are responsible for what they shoot. The charge is a good idea. Like many have said, it seems that some guests people bring have never even shot a gun in the past and this is their first time. We do have the rule where it counts as a tag regardless if they find it or not.

 

[acloco]

Drone with thermal will help in recovery.

 

[ebb]

There is a story told by and insider that work for the Lightsey family on a pay per hunt trip. Big time laywer from the north east comes to kill a hog. He misses the shot so many times they catch a hog with the dogs and hold it down and allow him to shoot the hog at 2 feet distance. He fires the gun and shoots one of the guides boots. The guide was going to put the beat down on this guy and the owner and another guide had to hold the one with the shot boot till the lawyer was escorted off the property. some people don't need to hunt ever.