Depending on the length of your barrel the 1:8 twist maybe not enough spin for the 80 gr. I shoot 90 gr. with a 1:7 twist but it's not quite enough in my 26 inch barrel. However 77 and 80 gr. SMK tighten right up out to 600 yards but after that the 90 gr. groups better at 1000. Try the SMK 77 gr and see how they shoot.
how to shrink groups ?
- Thread starter rebs
- Start date
Bottom Fodder
Silver $$ Contributor
If my 223 would group 11/2 at 300 it would put a Smile on my face
shooterjon
Silver $$ Contributor
you may want to follow my reducing the group buy just moving the target closer,lets say say to 100 yards.
If hat don't do it ,BUY A NEW GUN and have some fun.
Just me thinkin again!
Or turn your spotting scope around , everything will look smaller… seriously time to play with seating and then a tuner as was mentioned above
Are you sorting components by weight ,volume, length etc? Loading those within a margin ?
What type of stock does the rifle currently wear?
Schippergreg
Silver $$ Contributor
Unless you’re using wind flags you’re only guessing.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
^ this.
I think a lot of people are wandering off into the weeds with the comments about flags, sorting components, type of stock, etc. and need to reconsider the platform being used: factory-barreled Tikka, in .223 Rem. Nothing against Tikka, their barrels work great for what they are... but factory barrel, and .223 Rem, folks
If the 1/2 moa group @ 300yd is consistent/repeatable... not saying it'll never get any better, but it's kind of like squeezing blood from a turnip, as my old man used to say.
1 1/2" at 300 yards - wow! I would be ecstatic with that!! That's very good shooting by you also.
Personally, I'd keep that load and work on my technique refining it and practicing more - it might pay bigger dividends. You may have reached the mechanical limit of precision with that rifle.
However, if you like to tinker, you can try the suggestions offered by others in this post.
Personally, I'd keep that load and work on my technique refining it and practicing more - it might pay bigger dividends. You may have reached the mechanical limit of precision with that rifle.
However, if you like to tinker, you can try the suggestions offered by others in this post.
I find that 300 yard 223 groups are very wind sensitive, it did not matter if I was using fast 1:7 twist and heavy projectiles or slow 1:12 and medium weight projectiles.
I went with 40's and pushed them hard reducingthe time of flight, I got my 300 yard groups to average 1 1/16" at 300 yards but as a varmint shooter I have 2 rifles my 223 and my 6MM Remington for windy days. In my experience the 223 just can't push the mid and heavies fast enough.
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
I'm still waiting to see the magical combination that can rewrite the laws of Physics.
-Almemilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm still waiting to see the magical combination that can rewrite the laws of Physics.
My point was that with his groups being described as mostly circular, slightly wider than they are tall... wind is probably not the primary limiting factor in his group size.
Is it better to have some idea what is going on with the wind down range? Absolutely. Are flags going to magically make a factory barrel in a caliber that is historically a bit of a PITA when it comes to consistent small groups shoot amazingly better? Maybe, maybe not.
What kind of optic are you looking through? The scope can be a limiting factor at 300 yards. Thickness of the reticle, parallax ,mirage and scope clarity all come into play when trying to shrink groups below a 1/2 MOA.
Depending on model, barrel weight, stock, 1/2 MOA may well be the rifles capability. If this is a 6–1/2 lb rifle with a sporter barrel it’s probably at its limit. If it’s a 9lb Varmint contour then there may be some more.
I asked about the number of rounds because a 1/2 MOA three shot group is one thing, a five shot is different. My 13 lb Rem 700 Varmint is capable of three shots in the teens but the groups grow to a little under .4 MOA for five shots. This is consistent and repeatable at 100 and 300 yds.
I’d be curious what the 100yd group size is. If it significantly less than 1/2 MOA then I might suspect the load or possibly the scope, power and reticle. While I have no experience with that bullet I personally would not try to load it .005” 9ff the lands I would look in the 30 to 60 thousandth range.
Would suggest getting in personal contact with a more seasoned shooter/reloader in
your state or area to discuss your process and hopefully get some more precise
directions on how to proceed.
Best Wishes
If you are not using Lapua or Norma brass, you can start off by uniforming neck thickness. Those two makes are the best to have, they have close to perfect quality control.
If you ever heard of sorting brass by weight or by volume, it's the torture reloaders put themselves through as penance for not using Lapua or Norma brass.
1. full length size with no decapping pin, this just bumps the shoulder
2. trim
3. heat treat the necks
4. mandrel size
That should give you a basically uniform neck tension.
If you're using a flame annealer, don't be too shy with it, or you don't actually soften the necks.
The rabbit hole is deep, some people throw buckets of money into it with induction annealers and force measuring seating presses.
George Farr did none of that, and he still put 70 consecutive shots into the ring at 1000 yards in 1921.
The OP is using a Tikka. I've seen a factory Tikka in a 25-06 put 6 shots into half an inch at 300 meters. Good loads and good shooting, but good platform as well.
You really don't need to jump through hoops to get sub-moa, just the basics will do.
It just needs tons more work the closer you want to get to one hole groups.
YES! Little Details add up to Big Nice Results.
Neck tension is controlled by a neck bushing die. I use home made wind flags that work pretty good. My rifle is a completely stock Tikka T3x just the way it came in the box., my scope is a Sightron SIII 10 - 50 x 60. Some days I have to dial it down because of mirage. My groups are 5 shot groups and at 100 yds they are one slightly ragged hole. I have not tried sorting components yet. I will try more jump on the seating depth as Doom suggested.
Would it be worth trying some Lapua brass as 414 gates suggested ? My action screws are torqued to 25 in lbs front and rear with the rear being tightened first.
Would it be worth trying some Lapua brass as 414 gates suggested ? My action screws are torqued to 25 in lbs front and rear with the rear being tightened first.
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