How to deal with a non-responsive gunsmith?

[Cigarcop]

I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about.....what I don't understand is he was happy to do your work all these years, take you're money for the services, answer emails, calls, ect,.......If in fact you're retiring now why not have the courtesy to simply put a message on your machine advising of such to the people who patronized your business all these years???

 

[rrwildlife]

I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about.....what I don't understand is he was happy to do your work all these years, take you're money for the services, answer emails, calls, ect,.......If in fact you're retiring now why not have the courtesy to simply put a message on your machine advising of such to the people who patronized your business all these years???

I'm not sure we are thinking of the same person. I don't think he is retiring, or at least he didn't indicate he was when I stopped by the shop in March. He said he was still taking on work and was quoting 3 years.... But I have had several people contact me about another gunsmith they are having problems with. Oddly he has the same first name but a different last.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Oh ! The Pain and BS.
I went the 2 1/2 trip down Gunsmith Trail.
I sent one of many emails , Ok what's his name times up put my stuff in a Box and Ship today. I add I am 70 + by the time you get it done ,I won't remember what it is for.

It worked out if you can call it that ? Got my job shipped finished , reamer and some money back and a whole lot of Sorry.

Lesson , Never again , time waits for No-one.

The Best,
Don

 

[Knotwild]

The thing that gripes me is when the gunsmith acts like they have the right to make us wait.

Lesson learned in this thread - negotiate time line - with exactly what will happen if there is a deviation FIRST, then price second. After that don't look back.

 

[hoz53]

Oh ! The Pain and BS.
I went the 2 1/2 trip down Gunsmith Trail.
I sent one of many emails , Ok what's his name times up put my stuff in a Box and Ship today. I add I am 70 + by the time you get it done ,I won't remember what it is for.

It worked out if you can call it that ? Got my job shipped finished , reamer and some money back and a whole lot of Sorry.

Lesson , Never again , time waits for No-one.

The Best,
Don

What I could never figure out is - say it’s going to be a year until they can work on your gun - why can’t I send it to them then instead of a year ahead of time. it’s been a long time since I used a gunsmith and that’s because of things happening like described in this post. Sad thing is there are good ones out there that don’t deserve me to feel this way.

 

[300_whisper]

I wouldnt want the ATF involved in anything personal with me. Good news is that if you did contact them they probably wouldnt help you anyway. You'll probably have to take him to small claims court, or go see him personally.

 

[gunnermhr]

There is nothing positive to come from a road trip to a "Gun" smith, Showing up to someone's place of business or home here in PA with a threating demeaner could prove to be a very unpleasant experience.

If you were to call the PA State Police Barracks closest to his location I'm sure they would be happy to pay him a visit. I work very close with the PA State Police and have no doubt they will help you. After all, wouldn't this be considered theft of a firearm if they will not return calls, text or email. Presented in that manner I'm certain the ATF would not let it slide either, my ATF agent is very helpful when I have questions and is always willing to help with anything I ask.

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Same thing as with a taxidermist....

Pick your stuff up and find someone who wants your business.

I don't want someone working on or building my stuff who doesn't want to.

 

[457ciSBC]

There is nothing positive to come from a road trip to a "Gun" smith, Showing up to someone's place of business or home here in PA with a threating demeaner could prove to be a very unpleasant experience.

If you were to call the PA State Police Barracks closest to his location I'm sure they would be happy to pay him a visit. I work very close with the PA State Police and have no doubt they will help you. After all, this could be considered theft of a firearm if they will not return calls, test or email. Presented in that manner I'm certain the ATF would not let it slide either, my ATF agent is very helpful when I have questions and is always willing to help with anything I ask.

However, there no proof that a crime has been committed.It’s not a crime to be non-communative.Unless there’s proof that the GS no longer has in his possession the action the the OP dropped off, this is a civil issue.

 

[gunnermhr]

However, there no proof that a crime has been committed.It’s not a crime to be non-communative.Unless there’s proof that the GS no longer has in his possession the action the the OP dropped off, this is a civil issue.

I chose my words incorrectly, I should have presented it as a question, fact of the matter is, if he fails to return the firearm, wouldn't it be considered stolen or at the very least, theft of services, the OP did give a deposit.

 

[457ciSBC]

I chose my words incorrectly, I should have presented it as a question, fact of the matter is, if he fails to return the firearm, wouldn't it be considered stolen or at the very least, theft of services, the OP did give a deposit.

Yes and the deposit for the action and barrels would be a civil issue. It’s even more muddy when the OP just continues with no hard push back dates.
I always suggest having a written scope of work and a parts lists that’s signed/dated by both parties. This at least provides some type of expectation and accountability.
How many have ever dropped off parts to a shop and have no evidence that you dropped parts off. What happens if the shop person dies?

 

[JEFFPPC]

Yes and the deposit for the action and barrels would be a civil issue. It’s even more muddy when the OP just continues with no hard push back dates.
I always suggest having a written scope of work and a parts lists that’s signed/dated by both parties. This at least provides some type of expectation and accountability.
How many have ever dropped off parts to a shop and have no evidence that you dropped parts off. What happens if the shop person dies?

I wonder why a dropped off action is not treated like a gun left for repair? Must be logged and a recipt offered.

 

[Bill Norris]

It is totally understandable for anyone to feel betrayed and lied to outright by a "smith" when it seems he has fallen off the face of the earth. But, when this occurs with a couple of projects it seems the long time customer base of these "fallen heros lightly" will continue to take their parts and pieces to them. If when these first failed projects become open aired to the public the hatchet was dropped on them it would save lots of grief. Yes there is an art to building a rifle that is capable of shooting straight but that "one apple gone bad" did not create a vacunm and suck all the other good builders up with him. There are still good reliable builders out there that will do a great job and do their best to hold a time frame. A great recommendation is ODCR (WSMNUT) here on the site. Try him and see for yourself.

 

[457ciSBC]

I wonder why a dropped off action is not treated like a gun left for repair? Must be logged and a recipt offered.

Yes, true for action, but what about all the other collateral parts that traditionally that don’t have serial numbers.I‘ve seen ugly things happen when things go sideways and you have no proof that you dropped off parts.

 

[JimPag]

I tried to call him but he didn't answer and left him a message. I talked with a friend in Maryland last night who also dropped off an action, stock and barrel and he hasn't heard from you know who in over 2 months. I know he has been sidelined with major health issues and has been unable to work. I'll keep trying to contact him.

 

[gunnermhr]

Yes, true for action, but what about all the other collateral parts that traditionally that don’t have serial numbers.I‘ve seen ugly things happen when things go sideways and you have no proof that you dropped off parts.

I tend to think if this was your equipment you would have a different outlook and would be more willing to offer help as opposed to being negative about what is being presented to help this guy out.

Bottom line is, if the smith isn't going through a life changing event, sickness or something of that nature he owes customers a response to where their equipment is. If however he is unable to make contact with his customer base because of sickness I wish him well and a speedy recovery.

Like I mentioned before, a call to the PA State Police would answer a lot of questions

 

[NorCalMikie]

Funny how the "Man" goes from the best thing since sliced bread to the scum of the earth in nothing flat?
In his case, my bet is he's got problems/issues. Someone doesn't go from good to bad without there being an issue of some sort.
There are good smiths that are booked up for years and nobody says JACK!!
Me? Cut the man some slack till you hear "the rest of the story".

 

[DGP4]

I feel your pain, but why would the ATF get involved? He hasn't broken any firearm laws or regulations. Same with calling the police. They will tell you it is a civil matter. I suspect your best bet is the registered letter route with a road trip if that does not work. Sometimes a complaint filed with the BBB can work wonders too.

 

[300_whisper]

I feel your pain, but why would the ATF get involved? He hasn't broken any firearm laws or regulations. Same with calling the police. They will tell you it is a civil matter. I suspect your best bet is the registered letter route with a road trip if that does not work. Sometimes a complaint filed with the BBB can work wonders too.

great point why would you want the ATF involved in anything? Just an absolutely worthless agency.

 

[AICS308]

However, there no proof that a crime has been committed.It’s not a crime to be non-communative.Unless there’s proof that the GS no longer has in his possession the action the the OP dropped off, this is a civil issue.

I have to disagree. If this were about something like car work, or other disputes then yes it most likely would go to Civil Court for resolution. In this situation the action or receiver is the part that is registered as a firearm. As it stands now the OP is missing a firearm. He could possibly be at risk if the registered part was lost, stolen, or completed and used in crime. I know that this scenario is unlikely so just using it as an extreme example.

These are his parts he paid for and no communication from the GS. He should ask and demand his parts to be returned. If the GS can not complete the job in a reasonable time then man up, say I'm sorry, but I can't complete your project, and return any deposit along with the parts.

Do a background check for contact information. Try again to contact the GS. If that does not work then it's time to escalate. Contact local police and see if they are willing to help, the man has your firearm and will not return it.

I have contacted the ATF on 3 occasions. One call got a person who couldn't help. Called another number and the agents were more than happy to help. I would not hesitate calling ATF. The OP has done nothing wrong, it's the man who has to have a license to receive and work on firearms that is the problem.

I agree with a previous poster that it does not make any sense to send all the parts and wait 2 years. The gunsmith could take a non-refundable deposit of some amount with the written understanding that the customer will be notified 4 weeks before estimated date he can start the build. Then the customer sends the parts and have to be delivered 1 week before that date. I don't present this as the solution but as a conversation point.

I do not know anything about gunsmiths or their business but a better solution to this issue could be found.