How or why does a hummer barrel shoot better?

[johara1]

OK, i have a old hummer i got from Donovan and it has a bunch of rounds out it. I since have used many barrels of different mfg. none have come close the wind bucking ability of the hummer nor the accuracy, till this year i have now 4 of these barrels and 3 aren't hummers but the last two i had frozen and they are with out a doubt the most accurate barrels i have ever had. Of the four, 2 set records. The hummer shot 23 - 3" or less groups last year with different components than this year. This year i fumbled through reamer and bedding problems with a non hummer and it shot smaller after i got the problems somewhat solved. When everything was right, it would flat hammer the 2's. The difference, i had to go to work without the hummer. In defense of the hummer i thought is was there but i wasn't as far as the right components, had i loaded the same bullets as i use now it may have really did better but i will never know. I wasted it on average bullets, but still i had it on the other day after i fire formed with it. I cleaned it and ran some of the left over rds. from this year and it just shot a small hole. It just won't die. I have some new ones to grade when the weather changes and maybe i will find a good one,but i do have one that has eyes and it was never lapped. All my barrels are 28" now and all are frozen and the two from last year are crowned and they will go back on.
Do hummers shoot more accurate than others ? maybe, do hummers shoot better in the wind ? YES……….. jim

 

[savagedasher]

Has anyone ever checked the Actual twist rate on a hummer barrel. I have 4--8 that is from 7.98 to 8.16. I have 7.5 that checks 7.53.It defiantly shoots better in the conditions in Florida .The barrel isn't a one hole shooter but with a tuner I can make it one. Yesterday I took my 15 year old Grand Daughter to shoot 1000 yd paper shoot. She never had shot anything but a 223 center fire at 100yd. We had 5 to 11 mile winds with slow changes, when the wind would slow mirage would take it place. She shot 7.70 - 10 shot group. the second target with less then 3''of vertical .Every shot she had to re adjust her aim. Can the twist make a bullet shoot through the conditions better. Larry

 

[Erik Cortina]

I would think a fast twist would shoot better in a right to left wind due to spin drift.

 

[savagedasher]

I would think a fast twist would shoot better in a right to left wind due to spin drift.

What is the reason you feel that way Larry

 

[mikecr]

Ideal twist and stability is a lot more complicated than presented from a barrel.

 

[dkhunt14]

[/quote]

Very good explanation, but I'm still not convinced because: If one bullet leaving the muzzle of one barrel, is not as stable upon leaving the barrel, as is another bullet leaving a different barrel, than how can the first bullet fly as consistently and accurately as the second? Even a slightly unstable bullet leaving a muzzle will do all kinds of things poorly before it stabilizes, regardless of wind. Look at your football analogy. When a ball leaves the throwers hand and does not immediately stabilize, you see it wobbling all over the place and it is not usually an accurate pass. The stable ball does go straight and hit where it is thrown (even if there is no receiver in the vicinity). You have a great deal more long range rifle experience than I do. But I can't get my head around the concept of understanding why, if the same Bullet leaves two barrels at the same velocity, and both are equally accurate without considering wind, why one would become more accurate at "bucking" wind than the other. It sounds more like a psychological factor to me. If you believe you and your gun will shoot better, it usually will.
I had 2 308 Baers with 10 twist Kriegers shooting 240 Sierras at 2750. The one barrel shot better than the other but when it got windy the other barrel would outshoot the good one hands down. I won a relay at 1000 BR at 11 inches and the next best group was 27 inches. Another time I won a relay at 6 inches and next best was 18 inches. The windier it got the more the gun would win by. Now this was in relays with 11 other guns and most of them were great guns. In 2005 in Iowa at the nationals I shot in a relay with 8 minutes of wind on. The cornstalks were laying straight over; 22 benches and the gun shot 6.0 with a 3 inch vertical flier in it. It won the relay easily and that was with some of the best guns in the country. If you shot this gun in the wind you knew it was special. I shot sighters with a complete reversal of wind and would try to guess where they would go and you had to see it to believe it. Usually they didn't move much left and right but just slightly vertical. My buddy was behind me with the spotting scope and shook his head and said it should not be where it shot. It just shot through it.

 

[savagedasher]

How many has checked the actual twist is what I'm asking like I have with a degree wheel.
Larry

 

[dkhunt14]

quote
Depending on the definition what is the difference between a hummer and a barrel with a tuner both shooting in the 1's?
The hummer will shoot through the wind and the tuned equally shooting barrel won't. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

How many has checked the actual twist is what I'm asking like I have with a degree wheel.
Larry

How do you check with a degree wheel? A tightly patched jag will slip some and not be absolutely accurate. Matt

 

[savagedasher]

quote
Depending on the definition what is the difference between a hummer and a barrel with a tuner both shooting in the 1's?
The hummer will shoot through the wind and the tuned equally shooting barrel won't. Matt

I don't find it that way. But I know a un tuned won't. Larry

 

[savagedasher]

How many has checked the actual twist is what I'm asking like I have with a degree wheel.
Larry

How do you check with a degree wheel? A tightly patched jag will slip some and not be absolutely accurate. Matt

 

[savagedasher]

I didn't say I used a patch and jag. But I don't feel that wouldn't work also. Larry

 

[butchlambert]

Check with Stu Harvey in Kalif. He was trying to sell his twist rate checking equip. sometime back.

 

[johara1]

I shot the hummer at the National last year at White horse in the Light gun,and it shot through stuff that others were having trouble staying on the paper. The wind had pick ups so hard at times it wrapped my mirage shield around my scope. The barrel carried me,and i did pretty good. There is no brand, no tuner, no twist that can define a hummer…… My two barrels are shooting in the mid zero's at 100 and i use wind flags a hummer will shoot in the mid zero's and you don't have to worry about the wind flags,this the best i can explain it…….. jim

 

[savagedasher]

I shot the hummer at the National last year at White horse in the Light gun,and it shot through stuff that others were having trouble staying on the paper. The wind had pick ups so hard at times it wrapped my mirage shield around my scope. The barrel carried me,and i did pretty good. There is no brand, no tuner, no twist that can define a hummer…… My two barrels are shooting in the mid zero's at 100 and i use wind flags a hummer will shoot in the mid zero's and you don't have to worry about the wind flags,this the best i can explain it…….. jim

But we all know if a barrel wont shoot in the 2 conditions wont make it better. Larry

 

[Erik Cortina]

I would think a fast twist would shoot better in a right to left wind due to spin drift.

What is the reason you feel that way Larry

Because spin drift will move bullets to the right, so they would "drift" less in a right hand wind because they would cancel each other out to some degree.

 

[savagedasher]

I would think a fast twist would shoot better in a right to left wind due to spin drift.

What is the reason you feel that way Larry

Because spin drift will move bullets to the right, so they would "drift" less in a right hand wind because they would cancel each other out to some degree.
[/quot Wouldn't air density or H2O water grains in the air have a greater effect. On the tune of a bullet along with spin drift at longer yardage. Larry

 

[Nomad47]

Spin drift for MOST long range cartridges in APPROXIMATELY equal to a 1 MPH wind.

Or another way of looking at it: A 2 MPH wind from 9 o'clock will have triple the drift of a 2 MPH wind from 3 o'clock.

 

[savagedasher]

Spin drift for MOST long range cartridges in APPROXIMATELY equal to a 1 MPH wind.

Or another way of looking at it: A 2 MPH wind from 9 o'clock will have triple the drift of a 2 MPH wind from 3 o'clock.

We all agree but my question is will a faster spinning bullet in dense air be more or less effected. Most of my shooting is done in humidity of 90% plus. At 0 sea level. Larry

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

There is more spin (gyroscopic) drift at higher air density. Humid air is, as I'm sure you know, less dense than dry air of the same temperature.