how much time and money is enough?

[jackieschmidt]

Just to add a little sanity to the discussion, Sub .200 capability is getting into the Short Range Benchrest Rifle realm.

 

[davidjoe]

Just to add a little sanity to the discussion, Sub .200 capability is getting into the Short Range Benchrest Rifle realm.

Some Marine we know, shot 200-22X at 1,000. I bet if there were E-screens set up every 100 yards, the first one would be in the 1’s at the most.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I have been thinking about your question and keep coming back to putting in the time is the most important thing right now. Trigger time at different distances. Getting to know your rifle and hold a position when shooting exactly the same each time. Practice, Practice, Practice . And at least a couple of times a week shooting .Then just holding the rifle at the bench getting comfortable looking through the scope, getting used to the trigger. When I was in the Marines, in boot camp, we spent 2 weeks just doing this and learning about shooting skills before we went to the range to fire a shot. WE slept with our rifles. Just like any sport, if you don't put in the time, you will never be very good.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

This is an impossible question to answer. I’m not sure I even understand the question.

66 cartridges? 308 or bigger? Real reloader?Lots to unpack here. 3 pages and counting though.

You need thousands…..Of dollars, hours, miles, mistakes, etc.

Then quadruple it a couple times. If you’re wanting to do it more than once. As in actually consistently achieve 1/2 moa at 1k.

Cmon

 

[6MMsteve]

Build a 300 wsm put the proper brake on it, good barrel, good stock, trigger, scope, go shoot or a cheaper to shoot 6mmx47....startup u can buy used rifle then rebarrel for half the cost, can but a good used rifle for 3000 to 4000 sometimes a lot less even with multiple barrels, that's the route I would go

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Im just a varmint hunter and long range plinker, but I haven't seen any difference from measuring powder to .01 gr, even in smaller cases. I do it for peace of mind and cuz I have no life.

This whole thing is a lot of diminishing returns!

 

[ELR LVR]

I cannot imagine that the person or persons that hold this secret would answer you or me for any reason. It's probably more like a thousand secrets. The ones that know how spent many dollars and hours chasing the answer, more often than not wasted time and money trying to learn. The top long distance gun smiths try to be helpful, but do they offer the info that they have worked their whole life to learn, to strangers like you and me just for the asking? Would you? Do you or I have the smarts to do this and read all the signs and learn what makes a difference and what doesn't. The best Nascar driver of all times said he could see the wind. I am not sure I could determine 100% of the time if I was improving my set up or making it worse. I think that money may well be the least of your worries. Good luck you going to need it.

You are on the path to Wisdom

 

[ebb]

More than the money, good gunsmith, time to experiment, a place to test and tune, enough sense to look at the results and see a path forward, you need a mentor. I meet mine by accident, and he retired and moved away long before I learned enough to make it all happen. Looking at the latest group and figuring out how to make it smaller, and reading the wind I think are the most important.

 

[True Grit]

A simple quote between teammates "we share as much as we can" Eric Cortina. I'm just starting out on my quest to become a 1/2" group F-class shooter. I don't see where a person can achieve that kind of success for less than $10k in equipment cost. Then once the cost of time and practice it will take to get there.....that is if capable, I'd rather not know.
A sad fact, "having the best equipment won't make you the best, but without the best equipment you'll never be the best"

 

[Sandstorm]

How fast do you want to go......hmmmm'
As said before...First you need the 1000 yd range and 2nd you need to be able to use it all the time.
You need to put in the time ...period.

 

[gmr4]

My experience as a new F Class shooter is it takes a big time commitment and access to a 1000 yard range. To practice I like to shoot a match so thats around 80 shots and I take 3 hours plus drive time one hour… then to pprocess brass and load 80 is 3-4 hours for me and I’ve purchased Henderson trimmer, V4 powder set up and other items to speed up. Call it 8 hours time to practice one day.
Cost - gun -great rest - scope - 3-4 barrels chambered and ready, enough components to load for a year.. loading equipment easy 20K.

 

[drop_point]

I'd wager the biggest barrier to getting to 0.5 MOA at 1,000 is the shooter's ability to read the wind assuming he has a capable rifle. You can also chase your tail and doubt your wind calls with a rifle that throws flyers.

 

[jelenko]

@sailnaked
So, three pages of input and no response from you?

 

[quest450]

too busy sailing naked

 

[Steve Donlon]

I just noticed he said he only wanted to hear about the gun and not the shooter. Maybe to much information.

 

[marchx]

The most valuable aspect in getting to top level in F-class is time. Time for reloading, time for experimenting with powders, bullets, seating depths etc. I have access to 1000 yard range four times a year.

So, talent aside, the biggest challenge here is access to resources meaning time, money, material (components)

 

[davidjoe]

I just noticed he said he only wanted to hear about the gun and not the shooter. Maybe to much information.

I do hope he realizes that a half minute at 1,000, every shot, has only been done once. The shooter, rifle and weather aligned. TR also reset the national record near or on that same string.

The rare rifle that can do it, and rarer - the shooter, probably has a 100 round “window” of peak barrel performance to accomplish it within, then it’s back to X-counts in the teens.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@sailnaked
So, three pages of input and no response from you?

Are You,.. Surprised ?? Newbie's like to,.. 'Stir the Pot" and,.. disappear !

Thanks @sailnaked you'll keep these guys busy for a while.

This,.. ^^^ Bingo.
The OP needs to Do some of, HIS own, Research on HERE,..as I Did on building my,.. very accurate, 6 XC.
PLENTY of, Info IS, already available on,.. THIS Subject !

 

[ELR LVR]

More than the money, good gunsmith, time to experiment, a place to test and tune, enough sense to look at the results and see a path forward, you need a mentor. I meet mine by accident, and he retired and moved away long before I learned enough to make it all happen. Looking at the latest group and figuring out how to make it smaller, and reading the wind I think are the most important.

You make a good point to have a mentor,
At least someone who can answer every question correctly and possibly even analyze and point out flaws to improve upon or correct.
I was lucky to have 2 good people like that when I first started all this stuff over 30 yrs ago.
One being my Dad, which every rifle of his was a custom wildcat.
When I first began to get into long range...it was with pistol
practicing for Sillhouette shooting, Which our Gunsmith frtiend was involved with pretty regularly.
Cast his own 250 gr & 300 gr Keiths, and sold me all I wanted.
When I got more into reloading and become more curious about Long Range Rifle's
My Dad, did not "work me up to"...... shooting a mile
He STARTED ME OFF, at 1700 yards, that was my into to ELR.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not appreciate nor know all the intricacies that were involved in getting a rifle to consitently shoot at the kind of range.
I was too young and dumb, and thought "ok cool, I'm gonna go back to shooting my .44 at 200 now."
I thought all rifles should be able to do that, because theirs did.
A few years later when the accuracy bug bit hard, I had my first custom rifle built just for doing that very thing for myself. I could shoot at my work, after work, I could shoot at another long range place on the way home so I had unlimited areas to shoot from.
And again there, The Smith and my dad came into play teaching me every little aspect of making accurate ammo, keeping log books and documenting every session, wind reading etc etc etc.
His best friend, who was our Gunsmith only lived 20 mins. away.
So any time we needed a fix it job, or rebarreling, wait time was minimal in between his main contracts.
We shot, A LOT
And one of my most memorable learning experinces was a Trip to Wyoming to the Prairie Dog fields
Where we would test out our long rangers on P'dogs at 1 mile.
They were much better than I at the time, usually scoring a hit within 3 shots.
Growing up with that kind of influence and various caliber availability was priceless.
--------------------------
I know without them, I would have been on a slow and long learning curve
Instead I could just grab a rifle that already had all the load development done
Go Practice
then try to copy the load

 

[Steve Donlon]

The most valuable aspect in getting to top level in F-class is time. Time for reloading, time for experimenting with powders, bullets, seating depths etc. I have access to 1000 yard range four times a year.

So, talent aside, the biggest challenge here is access to resources meaning time, money, material (components)

Good to hear you are doing it. It looks like you have a lot of hoops to jump through just to shoot a rifle.