• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

How Good Is The Average PD Sniper?

How good is the average PD Sniper?

06b0e98b4c12bea5d04f80e90fad2a25.jpg


Not very good yet, but they are pissed off and practicing.
 
It’s an aptitude vs career discussion. Does the guy in Walmart sporting goods know as much about guns as the dude in electronics that lives on accurate shooter? Out of the very few military ‘snipers’ I met, I don’t think one of them knew detailed information about shooting. It was their task or job. They could tell you what a 308 is and maybe a few other chamberings but ask them to guess the implications of going with 0 or 1.5 leade angle and their stumped
 
When and where did this police "sniper" thing come from? Hollywood? The belief that all men are created equal? As in sniper vs marksman. They have always been referred to as marksman, or, sharpshooter.
This is correct. Sniper discipline is entirely different than marksman or sharpshooter which by the way is simply what many here on this site are. Very good shots with very accurate rifles. Sniper as the term applies are those shooting from concealment and a hide where muzzle flash isn't identified. Complete concealment in the form of whatever surrounding terrain tends to be. Police or LE precision shooters are not snipers. They simply are there as a last resort means to stop a hostage taker or baracaded hostage taking gunman not willing under any circumstances to give up their victims with death being imminent for the hostage. Obviously there are many other circumstances for one as most of the country saw in the 1997 North Hollywood bank shootout with police. Total disregard for LE and civilian lives while shooting a fully auto weapon at police. This called for an urban marksman to simply get a bullet in from a good vantage point and shut down the threat. Again, a very disciplined and experienced shooter with very good shooting skills with a precision rifle. They do still call them snipers at some LE centers and SWAT teams.
 
The short answer is: Not very good. I have met a few and shot with a few others. Most are good marksmen, as well as being good officers, but not exceptional shooters. When it comes to pure shooting ability and knowledge they are not trained thoroughly. Most departments don't train much, or send their sniper's out for advanced training. Usually they qualify for the job and are required to shoot very little to stay qualified. They would most likely never need the ability or equipment to make super difficult shots for their job. It does disappoint me that they are not given more training and better equipment. There are however exceptions. Some police swat snipers train and compete at very high levels and are excellent shooters, but on average I would say most are not. If I was ever in danger, I would rather have one of the guys I compete with take that shot. I sincerely hope I don't come off sounding like a jerk. Today I met and hung out with swat sniper at the range, kinda the only reason I even chimed in on this thread.
You hope you don’t come off sounding like a jerk, but You make a lot of generalizations that I’m pretty sure you don’t have any data on. You talk about “most departments” a lot. How many have you ever had any contact with? There are thousands of law enforcement agencies in the US and each one of them operates in a unique environment. In large cities, relatively short range shots, often through building or auto glass, are the norm. In rural counties, longer shots may be required. Anytime a LEO fires a weapon, there will be an investigation. Criminal charges, civil liability, civil rights violations, and the future of a career are on the line. All this greatly limits the possible weapons and ammo deployed and actions taken. And then you have to put up with know it alls who say you are not very good. When I was in the field, I could shoot as well as anyone on this list, if they were dealing with the same equipment and operational restrictions that I was. Cops are not very popular unless they are saving your ass. I hope I don’t have to rely on some bench rest shooter to rescue me.
~Gary
 
You hope you don’t come off sounding like a jerk, but You make a lot of generalizations that I’m pretty sure you don’t have any data on. You talk about “most departments” a lot. How many have you ever had any contact with? There are thousands of law enforcement agencies in the US and each one of them operates in a unique environment. In large cities, relatively short range shots, often through building or auto glass, are the norm. In rural counties, longer shots may be required. Anytime a LEO fires a weapon, there will be an investigation. Criminal charges, civil liability, civil rights violations, and the future of a career are on the line. All this greatly limits the possible weapons and ammo deployed and actions taken. And then you have to put up with know it alls who say you are not very good. When I was in the field, I could shoot as well as anyone on this list, if they were dealing with the same equipment and operational restrictions that I was. Cops are not very popular unless they are saving your ass. I hope I don’t have to rely on some bench rest shooter to rescue me.
~Gary

Some good points made here, particularly in relation to the use of force as an LEO - every round has to be accounted for, and justification for why it was fired, and continued justification if more than 1 round is required. The training side of things is different again. I only know of one LE agency among 'western' countries throughout the world which has a fulltime marksman team and it certainly makes a difference - the FBI HRT boys were very impressed when they came over and attended some joint training exercises.
 
I’ve seen our county police shoot and I’ve helped a couple of them at the range. It amazes me at how bad they are. They show up with millet scopes and sps remmy rifles
And expect to shoot under a minute at 600 yards with hornady factory ammo. I’m not trying to be disrespectful but my 11 year old nephew will outshoot them all be it with my equipment and dopes. I think maybe the young ones think their minimal training should translate to a sharpshooting Ability.
 
The town where I live used to host an annual police match, The sniper target was a bad guy with a hostage in front of him, about 2/3 of the bad guys head was visible. Out of 5 snipers at 100 ads 1 hit the bad guy, the others hit the hostage.
 
The town where I live used to host an annual police match, The sniper target was a bad guy with a hostage in front of him, about 2/3 of the bad guys head was visible. Out of 5 snipers at 100 ads 1 hit the bad guy, the others hit the hostage.

Those other 4 must have just watched the movie Soldier.
 
I shot steel with a police sniper for several years. We would go to a big bean field in the spring and spread steel and water containers all over the place. He would have to go to his notes for every shot while I kept it simple and functional. When the ground hogs ventured out in the field I’d have them dead before he could get on the trigger. Lol it drove him crazy while I piled them up. We always had a great time and looked forward to our annual outing when the crops sprout.

By coincidence he just called me yesterday and wants to go catfishing in the spring!
 
Last edited:
My last actual Prairie Dog adventure was in New Mexico with a close friend. I had some misses at 200+ yards with my friend's factory .223. Seeing my frustration, he offered me his 10-twist 6mmBR with a custom barrel. I had no more misses for the rest of the day, with longest shot at 360 yards. I conclude from this, that with a good rifle, an average "p-dog sniper" can shoot 1/2-MOA "all day long" (at least for elevation). The wind is the challenge. One trick for that -- set up your shots (when possible) with the wind straight ahead or directly behind. That way, as the wind cycles up and down in velocity, it may affect your elevation, but won't push you left or right. A hold-over reticle is also useful when moving from 100 to 300 yards and back again.

With the sweet-shootin' 6mmBR -- a truly accurate rifle really makes a difference!

nmsteiner01.jpg



See Wind Flag on P-Dog trip:

nmsteiner02.jpg
 
I thought the original poster was talking about prairie dog snipers when I saw this article over a month ago and thought he didn't know what a sniper is. When it went on and on I wondered what it was about. Imagine my surprise when I discovered he meant police department snipers. Then you guys went astray. Many on this site don't know what the life of a sniper was about in the 1960s in a land far far away. You work alone for a week or two for that single shot from 800-1000 yards. You can't just be stupid and not look for a way out before the shot. Studity bought you a short life. You had no friends. You take that shot and then lay very low for a couple days and if things go well you take a controlled exit. Snipers today are involved in a different war than our situation in the 60s. And that's all I will say about that.
Police snipers are a different lot completely. They have to think quickly with supervision looking over their shoulder or calling their much closer shot and they don't have to figure a way out most of the time. And they can go home at night. Of course they may have to answer to a lawyer.
 
I hope the following isn't too much of a hijack to the thread. If it offends the OP, I will delete it. Let me preface my story by say that I am 100% pro law enforcement. I totally respect them and would not undertake the task in today's cultural climate myself. Last month I was watching the Outdoor Channel and a lady fired a shot to harvest a deer. About 2 seconds later I hear bang-bang-bang come through my open window. I look out the window and see a County Sheriff Dept car near the end of my quarter mile long driveway. Now my curiosity is aroused and I grab a binoculars. I see the officer walking back to the rear of the SUV style vehicle. The hatch is open and he is obviously putting a rifle (AR?) back inside of the vehicle. After the officer drives away, I go down for a look see. What I find is a fawn size whitetail on the side of the road with 3 bullet holes in it. The good news is all 3 shots connected with the fawn. The bad news is they were scattered from the rear ham to the shoulder. Now this was likely a car injured fawn in need of a humane dispatch. My initial thought was "I sure hope this officer is not called to protect me in an active shooter situation".
 
I can reflect back when I was shooting for the Pa.national Guard, we were given the the task of evaluating 300 State Police troopers to make a state sniper squad. We went to Indian Town Gap military reservation to see if any were worth the effort, Maybe three were worth it. Rules of engagement were simple then, now you need a law degree...... jim
 
Based on the title I completely missed the focus of this thread. I thought PD was referring to "prairie dog"...

My bet is that most serious varmint hunters ability far exceeds most law enforcement shooters ability. As usual, there are probably exceptions and I could be wrong.
Yup, me too. ‘Prairie Dog’ perfect!
 
After ready a lot of the "critics" in this thread, its easy to punch paper or a varmint or two but I hope NONE of you ever have to reach the decision to end another human life under any circumstances. Leave that to the professionals.
 
Well, that was me and they were firing back when they had the chance. Concealment was more important than "the shot" after the shot. Distance was my friend. And, I did smoke a few. But, he'll, they were the enemy. Or was I? I never talked about it much and when we returned home we weren't welcomed by many other than family.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
164,769
Messages
2,184,174
Members
78,524
Latest member
SJTUTTLE18
Back
Top