How does anyone ever achieve the perfect load?

[Dusty Stevens]

What do you mean when you say it doesn't hold up over time Dusty? Is N135 temp sensitive?

I mean the varget loads in a mid to heavy bullet 223 (75-80gr) dont hold up over a years time and need to be tweaked. The n135 has been the same for me for 3yrs shooting it year round which is from 30deg to 100+. Im not gonna lie and say its the best i could tune it on every day but it holds a 2” gong at 200 i have that replicates a match target i use and it hits it 20 shots in a row every day ive tried it with a2 sights where the varget needs a bit of tweaking thru the year.

 

[clunker]

I mean the varget loads in a mid to heavy bullet 223 (75-80gr) dont hold up over a years time and need to be tweaked. The n135 has been the same for me for 3yrs shooting it year round which is from 30deg to 100+. Im not gonna lie and say its the best i could tune it on every day but it holds a 2” gong at 200 i have that replicates a match target i use and it hits it 20 shots in a row every day ive tried it with a2 sights where the varget needs a bit of tweaking thru the year.

So, are you saying that Varget powder degrades (or otherwise has different physical properties) over the course of a year? I'd say that is something to be concerned about. It's doubtful that I will ever load anything larger than 64gr in my .223, but if it has an effect on larger bullets, it could also have an effect on the smaller ones.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No it doesnt degrade it changes with atmospheric conditions and drifts farther than my precision requires. I think its too small of a case. When it came out it was touted as the end all for 243 and 22-250- thats the size case i like it in. Perfect for br size

 

[cw308]

Achieving the perfect load , never but it's fun trying. There's to many variables.

 

[Bob L.]

Achieving the perfect load , never but it's fun trying. There's to many variables.

This. What is a perfect load? How do you know when you find it? What are the attributes of a perfect load?

 

[Webster]

The title says it all. With all the variables involved, how does anyone ever develop the perfect load for their rifle before the barrel is toast? Let's just assume (as a novice) that I want to load for my .223 bolt, and I have done my research. I'm looking at H335 or CFE223 powder. Either Norma or Lapua brass. Confirmed CCI BR4 primers. At least 4 different bullets to see what the rifle likes.

Before I even consider seating depth, powder charge, or compatibility between dies and rifle chamber, let's do the math. I already have 16 different combinations of components, and I feel that I was fairly conservative in number of options. Assuming that my reloading skill is up to the task, I want at least 5 of each specific load, so I can compare velocity and accuracy. That brings us to a total of 80 rounds at the range.

Finally, adding into the equation both seating depth and powder charge at 5 points each so I can plot a curve, I end up with 2000 rounds at the range. God help me if I happen to choose dies that don't accurately model my chamber. It seems that the most likely scenario is that I might still have 50% of barrel life left before I have to buy a new barrel and start the whole process over again. Am I just chasing my tail with reloading?

You have to define what a good load is for your rifle based on what its intended use is. Is it a deer rifle, varmint rifle, casual BR fun, serious competition ect. Do you want to win matches or just shoot for fun. I only own 2 rifles intended to be used for GH hunting. I have a 6BR and a 6BRX both on factory Rem 700 stocks and actions. . About $2500 replacement value. Kreiger barrel, Jewel trigger, glass bedded, high mag scope. Factory barrels are hopeless if you really want small groups. Both my rifles routinely shoot groups under .350" and I am not highly skilled. All of my group size reduction has come from improving my personal skills. If your rifle doesn’t want to shoot group under about ¾” you may have to accept that’s as good as it gets. If you don’t have a lot of good bench skills and cannot routinely shoot round groups under .500” you probably won’t be able to see changes due to all the loading procedures you see on this website. Didn't read all of the many replies before writing this. It's too tedious.

 

[clunker]

No it doesnt degrade it changes with atmospheric conditions and drifts farther than my precision requires. I think its too small of a case. When it came out it was touted as the end all for 243 and 22-250- thats the size case i like it in. Perfect for br size

That really surprises me. One of the main attributes that got me interested in Varget was its supposed temp stability. At least that's what most of the reviews seem to indicate.

You have to define what a good load is for your rifle based on what its intended use is. Is it a deer rifle, varmint rifle, casual BR fun, serious competition ect. Do you want to win matches or just shoot for fun. I only own 2 rifles intended to be used for GH hunting. I have a 6BR and a 6BRX both on factory Rem 700 stocks and actions. . About $2500 replacement value. Kreiger barrel, Jewel trigger, glass bedded, high mag scope. Factory barrels are hopeless if you really want small groups. Both my rifles routinely shoot groups under .350" and I am not highly skilled. All of my group size reduction has come from improving my personal skills. If your rifle doesn’t want to shoot group under about ¾” you may have to accept that’s as good as it gets. If you don’t have a lot of good bench skills and cannot routinely shoot round groups under .500” you probably won’t be able to see changes due to all the loading procedures you see on this website. Didn't read all of the many replies before writing this. It's too tedious.

Yep! you missed a lot of info about intended uses. With the new scope, my groups have become significantly tighter (we'll see if I can still keep 3-shot groups under 0.5" MOA at 100 yds with factory ammo when I hit the range tomorrow). Maybe I just got lucky first time out.

 

[Webster]

That really surprises me. One of the main attributes that got me interested in Varget was its supposed temp stability. At least that's what most of the reviews seem to indicate.



Yep! you missed a lot of info about intended uses. With the new scope, my groups have become significantly tighter (we'll see if I can still keep 3-shot groups under 0.5" MOA at 100 yds with factory ammo when I hit the range tomorrow). Maybe I just got lucky first time out.

Sounds like your on your way. Good start. I found I have to be a fanatic about everything I do on the bench.
Some of the things I work on.
1. V on the rear bag aligned so the cross hair moves vertically up and down on the bull as best as I can get it. No side shift. Without holding the rifle the X hair should be within about an inch of the bull center.
2. No check pressure on the stock.
3. No steering the cross hair with my check or palm of my trigger finger. All alignment by sqeezing the bag.
4. Trigger finger thumb not over the tang.
5. I use a bipod. Legs locked back from shoulder pressure. Shoulder pressure steady's the cross-hair.
6. My biggest problem is pulling the trigger smoothly with cross hair centered.

The rifle recoil pushes the bipod and rear sandbag back about a inch each shot. This requires setting everything up after each shot. I used to average groups under 3/4" with a factory 6MM Rem barrel. Now I consider anything over .400" my fault not the load or rifle. I'm happy if the groups are round and under .350" 5 shots. In any case the rifle is more than good enough for GH hunting. You have to learn to use wind flags!!!

Buy Tony Boyers book on accurate shooting. Happy shooting guy.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That really surprises me. One of the main attributes that got me interested in Varget was its supposed temp stability. At least that's what most of the reviews seem to indicate.



Yep! you missed a lot of info about intended uses. With the new scope, my groups have become significantly tighter (we'll see if I can still keep 3-shot groups under 0.5" MOA at 100 yds with factory ammo when I hit the range tomorrow). Maybe I just got lucky first time out.

It may be more temp stable in bigger cases more aling the volume it was designed for. You can shoot retumbo in a 223 if you want- its a real stable powder- that dont mean its a good powder for a 223

 

[grovey]

It may be more temp stable in bigger cases more aling the volume it was designed for. You can shoot retumbo in a 223 if you want- its a real stable powder- that dont mean its a good powder for a 223

I shoot Varget in a 223 with heavies , and I haven't found this to be the case. Works rather well for me.

 

[clunker]

No dice on keeping groups under 0.5" today. I shot under MOA in 3-shot groups for 7 consecutive groups (my personal best). One of those groups was 0.465". I've given up trying for more than 3 shots. The 4th is always a flier (probably because of the light barrel). My accuracy started to spread a bit when the wind picked up, but I can live with those numbers considering that I was shooting off a bipod and didn't have a rear bag. To make matters worse, the dry mowed grass makes the bipod slip, so properly loading the bipod was nearly impossible. If what most forum members say about factory ammo is true, then I may have reached my accuracy limit until I start reloading.

 

[dolek]

No dice on keeping groups under 0.5" today. I shot under MOA in 3-shot groups for 7 consecutive groups (my personal best). One of those groups was 0.465". I've given up trying for more than 3 shots. The 4th is always a flier (probably because of the light barrel). My accuracy started to spread a bit when the wind picked up, but I can live with those numbers considering that I was shooting off a bipod and didn't have a rear bag. To make matters worse, the dry mowed grass makes the bipod slip, so properly loading the bipod was nearly impossible. If what most forum members say about factory ammo is true, then I may have reached my accuracy limit until I start reloading.

You need to shoot a lot more...plain and simple,your mind is way a head of your skills right now . This stuff takes time,some folks never get there...you are expecting instant perfection . Be patient and smell the roses along the way,you will know when the big gains come so ride them out and jump on the next ...before long you will be dialing loads in just using common sense and a nudge here and there from something you gleaned along the way. Have fun with it.

 

[Homerange]

No dice on keeping groups under 0.5" today. I shot under MOA in 3-shot groups for 7 consecutive groups (my personal best). One of those groups was 0.465". I've given up trying for more than 3 shots. The 4th is always a flier (probably because of the light barrel). My accuracy started to spread a bit when the wind picked up, but I can live with those numbers considering that I was shooting off a bipod and didn't have a rear bag. To make matters worse, the dry mowed grass makes the bipod slip, so properly loading the bipod was nearly impossible. If what most forum members say about factory ammo is true, then I may have reached my accuracy limit until I start reloading.

Run of the mill factory loads printing under 1" is quite acceptable out of a sporter !
Get some bags and hold the fore-end. Only the better bipods and rear bagged or a monopod will beat a proper bagged hold......unless you fork out for an F class sled.

 

[NATE49]

Shoot alot and know your equipment every day rifle and conditions change keeping great records is a way of predicting what should be expected from the equipment. Written daily logs and research you can match environmental conditions and load data. These loads can be loaded on the range the day of Shooting and can be changed as conditions change

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Once you find that perfect load
Then you find out that the bullet, powder and primer that you used is “out of stock” everywhere

 

[cw308]

Brx6
Ain't that the truth.

 

[David Milisock]

Once you find that perfect load
Then you find out that the bullet, powder and primer that you used is “out of stock” everywhere

Or discontinued!

 

[ebb]

If you think you have found the perfect load, you have deluded yourself and the truth is not in you.

 

[JohnKielly]

I found that once I cut back to one shot groups, it all fell into place.

 

[gman47564]

it wouldnt matter if we could ever achieve that perfect load... for most of us i dont think we could leave it alone... lol
seriously i think its possible to find but only for a brief moment... your barrel changes, the temp changes, the wind changes. everything is always changing ...