How do we bring new shooters into the sport?

[truman]

after many false starts i am going to try again. jimbos comment about most ar's are not legal/suitable for nra high power, f class or benchrest caught my eye. started thinking about the ar's sold at the gunshop i work at. overwhelmingly they are 16" barrels flat tops with 6 position stocks. perfect for tactical matches or plinking but nothing but frustration for the average shooter in the more "precision" events. i do not see how to include this vast pool of ar owners into "precision" events short of making even more events, making the distances less, and the targets larger. am i wrong? members at many clubs already object to competition range closures, so adding more is a problem. i feel the flames of hell already so sorry if i stepped on a sacred cow.

 

[johara1]

I see it as new shooters are lazy, they don't want to put forth any effort. Load, weigh powder, point bullets,hard to do if you send over 4000 text in a month.Play games on the computer, you can't get them to commit to doing anything other than yanking a trigger, if you will load for them. That is why the spray and pray shooting is popular, you can even get them to go hunting.
After what just happened, i don't think it will matter. Gun laws will wipe us out. The young will be happy with the video games and the phone,and it is our fault.....we can't say no....... jim

 

[woolenmammoth]

Im certain I will be in the minority with this one, but will throw it on the fire.

I have had some great mentors. I had enough liquid income at one point to build some custom rifles. Head over heels into reloading for accuracy. Have a competitive spirit that has led to a long list of achievements in life. I also have a schedule that makes an early morning rise on a weekend to go to a match virtually impossible. I understand it takes some time to run any kind of match, but an 8 or 9 am start completely excludes me from shooting. If there were afternoon starts or even late morning, it would make all the difference in the world. Im talking just club level matches. Perhaps this already happens, but not at any range near me. I practice regularly with the same crowd who are shooting the matches, and really thats good enough for me, the friendly competition in that, but it would be nice to shoot in a real match every so often. I dont expect this to resonate with very many people but if you are working nights on friday and or saturday, pretty much makes shooting in the morning impossible.

 

[langenc]

I shoot 22 BR and have for about 7 yrs now.

I ONCE shot a match at a different club about 100+ miles from home. My preferred range is 140 mi.. USBR-but not sanctioned. The sanctioning part is where trouble starts with the rules the gentleman a couple posts up noted.

We have very few young shooters right now-less than 45 or 50. Had a few families in the past. Ammo (22 LR) for a night practice and a match for Dad and one or two kids is $125 most likely. That is a lot of groceries and clothes.

The problem is that for sanctioned matches (whatever the letters) you shoot 2 or 3 targets and then drive home. That happened to me once, at the match mentioned. We waited 30+ min for Joe who was supposed to be coming. He never did. Shot one target at 25 yrds and one at 50 and the most of the shooters went to the bar to finish up. Range was closed.

At the non-sanctioned shoot one can shoot a target about every 30 min or skip one and shoot the next in about 30 min, 20 min to shoot and 10 or so to change target, rifle or whatever.

Cant get there at 10AM-no problem, show up at 11 or 11:30 and get set up. Want to go to church Sunday-fine just show up and shoot when you can, till 2 pm or so. Range is open as long as someone want to shoot.

Another range wont allow a mixture of different classes of guns. I couldnt shoot my unlimited while sporters were shooting, lots of open benches. I guess they must have cheaters there?? I shot one target and left-for $20. Amen-that range is thankfully, no where near.

Run shoots how you want but it appears the present system(s) aint working.

When you see someone you dont know ask em "you shooting today?" Many will say "NO" dont have a gun. Good cause you can shoot mine. Get a target and get ready.. I have had several shooters shoot rather than standing around wishing. This probably aint possible w/ CF and for sure in the sanctioned matches.

 

[anrew]

My gunsmith is a 10 time champ, he can do it all. Hes got one boy thats 24 He hates to shoot dont care, He even hated out in p-dog country. First off you got to love shooting. Just like anything else you dont like it or enjoy why stay in it. I have been shooting for 15 years. I go p-dog hunting 3 to 5 times a year. This year will be my first year at ibs 600 yards. The problems So few ranges, travel, the cost of everthing it gets up thier real quick. Need someone to show you, its no fun if your gun dont shoot or your just struggling. Young people will give up very fast, lose interest. Plus this sport takes alot of time to catch on and figure out stuff, wind,reloads,what do i try next. If you enjoy the sport you will stay in it. I do the best i can we new people at the range, I know what its like to be thier and not know whats going on. Im just glad that me and my mom and dad enjoy the sport. Yes my mom is quite the shooter she has got a p-dog at 630 yards.

 

[Taildrag15X]

There are a lot of ARs out there few competition options. Currently the only options for a typical AR shooter is 3 gun, which requires the added expense of a pistol and shotgun, and service rifle which has strict configuration rules that eliminate most of the ARs people own.

It would be nice if there were a semi-auto class for both fclass and br.
[/quote]
Jimbo,
AR's are welcome at any F-class or Midrange match.
[/quote]

Yep, I know

I took my AR (20 inch bull barrel) to a clinic but haven't participated in a real match yet. I'm single loading 80gr Nosler CCs over varget.

If we want to get more shooters involved with shooting competition there has to be a class for the most common config. FClass doesn't allow flash hiders/brakes and you have to single load. Service rifle class has to look like a stock M-16. Those two limitations eliminates 90% of the ARs that are currently out there.
[/quote]

To answer your issues jimbo88mm with the Rules you mention, I'll give you MHO, I liked all the Competitors I could get, if it's SAFE it shoot, and fell within the Rules, use it.

It's in the Rules, even in Service Rifle/XTC you have to Single Load when in ANY Slow Fire Postion with your semi auto, ie, Standing/Offhand and Prone Slowfire.

NRA Highpower Rules do allow the use of a "Flash Hider", nowhere in the Rules does it say you can't, what is covered here:

3.16.1 Compensators and Muzzle Brakes -
The use of compensators or muzzle brakes is prohibited. An extension tube that has been installed on the muzzle of a rifle to extend the sight radius shall not be considered a “muzzle brake.” The extension tube must have an interior diameter of .5 inches or greater and may have 1/4” x 1”
slots cut at 12 and 6 o’clock to remove cleaning patches. Threaded holes along the top of this tube for the installation of sight bases will be allowed.

(a) Sound suppressors are not authorized for use in high power competition.

Take a look at the NRA Complete Rulebook, Any Rifle and Any Rifle, Any Sight will open the door for an AR to Compete, at least in any NRA HighpowerTournament I've ran, they are open to anything that falls within the Rules.

http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

 

[DogPatch06]

Hate to say it, but this is an older Man's game. Mentors are fine but they are busy too. If you don't have a military or LE background you have to have the time to sit around for hours determining the relevance of posts in forums like these, youtube videos, and google searches. You have to look up words you don't know and fit them together like you were learning to read as a child. You have to have the ability to spend a couple thousand dollars on a rig and reloading tools to get started, and then spend hours developing your reloading process, choosing specific components, and working through assembly and testing methods. You have to apply the same logic to purchasing and using a gun as you do with things that "matter" in your life. Most young people do not think like this. If they do, they tend to have good jobs and/or a family to work on, and don't see any value in doing any of that because they aren't innately fascinated by guns (You know you all are or you wouldn't be doing any of this - we are Gun Nuts don't you forget it). You wonder why people think this whole thing is weird? And it's tough to get new young people? Most shooting ranges barely have a website, and some even claim they are easy to use because "no logging in" is required. Most gun range management folks still think it 1970 and never went to college. Attracting new shooters who have the right mindset requires a careful and thorough internet presence - to start. Then someone they can relate to if they show up with their new gun, not good old Bob who is slow to get around these days.

 

[CaptainMal]

Money - EGO -Physical Ability...Those factore are important and not always to the negative.

Benchrest shooting does not require lots of athletic ability. Many CAN do it well past their peak physical skill years. Some may see that as a bad thing as they might want more of a physically demanding sport for their EGO.

Ego is an issue. When the thrill of just getting a bullet to go 1,000 yards wears off a bit ( or whatever the range) the reality of being last or low on the scoring HURTS an ego. Those winning are not going to throw the score. Their EGO says, "win" and get the accolades. That's good. It reinforces their participation and skills. It's bad in that it discourages some others.

MONEY is a major issue. The masses will not participate. You talk thousands to start and then dedicate many hours for reloading, testing, reading, shopping, learning and internet sites like this one. To do all that takes a unique and special person.

I do not think it will ever be "masses popular". More encouragement and more friendship by experienced competitors would be helpful and is sometimes missing. Still, most are just wonderful people to know and those are the ones that help sustain what we have right now. Win or lose so many make it fun and why many do return and participate.

My answer is a "non-answer"; just some thoughts on what I see.

 

[Ed333]

I think money and time available for '''trigger time' are important factors. But as an older (72) F Class 'newbie' , I think a couple of informal club matches with designated coaches/mentors, followed by 'fun matches' to let the experienced shooters have their time, plus some educational classes or field instruction, would help get some new blood up and running. By classes, I am thinking of advanced competition re-loading techniques, wind-reading, etc. And balanced advice on equipment choices for a limited budget, that would help.
I also notice that if you are not shooting High Power, and are unable to travel very far, then the actual match shooting opportunities are slim.

 

[BigJXP100]

Well first off I'm new to this site so let me say thanks in advance for all the wealth of Info you guys will provide me. I guess you would consider me a young shooter (30). I was exposed to guns at a young age and loved to shoot anything. I used to shoot skeet, hunt and right before I joined and went in the Navy I started shooting IHMSA with a .22LR S & W Pistol. I enjoyed doing that and stopped doing it for 12 years until last month. I went to my first match in 12 years earlier this month at Douglas Ridge. I had a blast. Just got done buying me a Remington XP-100 in 7MM BR and my next is a TC Contender. My thought in why it is hard to get young members is Money, Time and advertising. We have a gun range right next to my house that has a 4 year waiting list (Clark County) to join and they don't do IHMSA, Douglas ridge is an hour from my house and TRI County is 1-1/2 to 2 hours from my place. Really hard to go practice and prepare because these ranges are private. We have 1 range to go shoot at that is public and its expensive to go and do that. I really don't have the time to shoot like this because I'm married, have 3 kids (17 months, 3 years and 5 years old) and I work rotating 12 hour shift work. Believe me I would love to try all these different kinds of matches (IPSC, Long Range, ETC...) but don't have the time or enough money to try them all. Don't get me wrong, for my age I make good money, but as you all know shooting is not a cheap hobby, especially when you start buying high dollar rifles, scopes that can cost thousands. My dad used to reload and I watched him do that. It takes a lot of time to do that and you need to do that if you expect to get any kind of accuracy. For now I'm going to try to make every IHMSA shoot this year and start reloading my 7MM BR. Anyone in my area that wants to expose me to any type of other competition shooting I welcome it and would love to try something new as long as I'm not working. Everybody I talk to I'm trying to get them to go with me to the next IHMSA match, even offered to let them use my .22 pistol as long as they pick up some ammo. That's my 2 cents.

John M.

 

[DaveC]

I haven’t posted here before but this ‘how to get more people’ topic is a hot one at IHMSA as well – my shooting sport. Personally I don’t think it’s a cost thing or a young person thing. The last Regional IHMSA match I attended had fewer than 15 shooters but that club was hosting their regular monthly IDPA match and 40+ shooters were present. My own home club has outstanding IHMSA facilities and turns out 20-25 shooters most months but 80-100 shooters at monthly IDPA matches.

It takes several years for most shooters to become competitive in IHMSA and several months to become competitive at IDPA matches. I feel the issue is action. Many new shooters I talk to are looking for a video game like experience with 300+ rounds shot at a match, lots of different target opportunities, reactive targets and an achievable level of accuracy. I think that’s why IDPA (young shooters) and Cowboy (old shooters) matches are so popular.

BR like IHMSA just isn’t sexy. Folks that shoot BR like those in IHMSA do have a “passion/obsession with precision”.

 

[Jim See]

I started f-class, because I was invited to a shoot by a friend who was very familiar with it. I showed up was uncomfortable because I was basically clueless as what was going to happen and what my responsibility was. So whats stopping 90% of serious shooters from participating in formal matches? fear.

Once the first match was over I was completely comfortable with it, so we need to get new guys by getting them thru there first match and overcoming the fear of the "unknown". Like someone said, holding an intro to xyz shooting sports class and publicizing it well may be a good route.

As far as why are some disciplines dying, it's because others are growing, so fast that there is a vacuum of the new shooters starting the more appealing shooting sport. The Tactical/Practical type of rifle matches are in such high demand that entries exceed available spots on the match allotment. Sometimes by a 3 to 1 margin. The added draw to these matches is not much in the way of equipment restrictions, other than bullet size and speed, (to save on steel target repairs) Many entrants run either customs, semi customs, and even some factory guns. Bolt guns and semi-autos are allowed to compete against one another. So in reality the inclusivity of these matches may also help draw new people.

In the last 5 years I think F-class in this region has grown about 100% , mostly by word of mouth and people inviting new people to the sport on a one by one basis. heck I'm going to try and slip in a couple HBR matches this year so I can shoot with a buddy who asked me to try it 3 years ago. Stretching time between 3 disciplines can get a little hectic so I will likely press firm into one and do the other two for fun/practice time.