How do we bring new shooters into the sport?

[broncman]

As far as young people go, alot of that is time and money! I attended one of the North State Shooting Clubs Long Range clinics back in the mid 2000's. I brought my 10,12,14 year old sons and they all shot. Out of the three two are really good shooters. Problem is they cant get the same times off now that they are teens and work.


The Clinic was the very thing that started it for me. I mentioned it to Kent Reeves in October and told him I would even be interested in a seminar type weekend if no range was available.

Again, ADVERTISE !! I go online frequently looking for places holding small club type matches because I want to shoot more locally. I find very few and when I do I have to pick a part club webpages that are very lacking. Post your matches in other forums as well.

 

[LHSmith]

Cost is a big part of shooting. The cost will not be going down any time soon. Heck even is gas goes back to $0.35 a gallon and stays there the costs will not go down.

Shooting paper is not that much fun. Even if you have a great range.
Most want instant gratification. Shooting junk rapidly gives that to many.
Rules exist to keep people safe but I will not ever do BR as I can not easily remove my bolt.
Have a brake? You can not shoot not even at the far end of the range. Yes we have the room but it is distracting.
You can not feed from a mag. That is for bolt or semi.
You have a hunting rifle? You have to have it set at 6x or whatever the power setting they told me.
You have a hunting rifle but it is too heavy so you have to shoot in this class.
I am ok with most of that but do not even post my scores. We have to post them.
You have an AR? Take your bolt out.
Is an oci ok? Take your bolt out.

There are as many reasons not to shoot paper as there is to shoot.

Not sure where you attended matches.......but in order not discourage new shooters from trying short range BR ---specifically Score--lets set the record straight for those who may attend an IBS sanctioned Score match......at this time there is still a provision to allow AR's to compete.....yes it must be loaded single shot....No, you don't HAVE to take the bolt out - you MUST however use a empty chamber indicator....if you don't have one ...the club should provide you with one/ there IS a factory class which allows ANY scope, any weight -as issued from the factory/ many clubs will not charge first time competitors, nor are they required to join prior to their first match.No brakes because that would be unfair to subject a neighboring bench to unnecessary muzzle blast that could cause shots in the 8 ring or worse. I don't understand the problem with posting scores....it's all relative....no one expects a factory gun to shoot as well as the BR rigs, the scores are listed by class.....it IS REGISTERED competition after-all, there is NO do-overs, NO mulligans, NO "we don't keep score so no feelings are hurt".
Apparently, the trying to incorporate the AR class into this game has been a non-starter, I have only seen one competitor try it and he gave up after 6 matches or so.
I thrive to shoot at a 1/16" dot on paper, I feel very comfortable walking among others at the range with Bolt-actions knowing bolts are secured in a holster.....and I am too laid back to demand "instant gratification"

 

[savet06]

Terry,
IMO you are doing exactly what it takes to bring new shooters to the sport: First and foremost there must be matches available, promote them in the correct venues, realize that you are there as match director for the shooters first, then the club, then whomever else may benefit, and make sure you and those that help out AND the shooters have fun.
Word of mouth is a powerful tool and those that are interested will show up, try it out, and if the shoe fits they will wear it.
Keep your mind open to any shooters that show up and try to be as accomodating as possible.
Treat the matches like a business and the shooters like your customers. You won't be able to please them all, but if you have a good foundation and a goal in mind it will the shooters who will benefit and thus the sport.

We are holding our first clinic in CT and I am hoping that there will be some who are curious about the sport who show up and then start coming to matches later in the year.

Good luck,
Mike Suhie

 

[joejo]

aside from the money aspect, i feel alot of guys aren't very good at making new guys feel welcome. before i started to shoot in any type of match, i visited a few ranges during their shoots. i was just there to observe. i walked around alot and just tried to make conversation. unfortunately most times i would only get 1-2 guys that were willing to talk and be personable. most others seemed "clicky" only talking to their buddy and no time to speak to the new guy. this made benchrest not so apealing.

luckily a friend of mine got me started in f-class open. now, anytime i shoot, i take extra equiptment to offer up for use, bipods, rests, bags. i always am willing to help someone and suggest my opinions if they feel the need to listen. i am never pushy with my opinions, bc who wants to hear "this is how you do it". i also don't wait to have someone new introduce themself to me, the environment can sometimes be intimidating to a newcomer.

 

[Nodak7mm]

Advertise, advertise, advertise... If it is not known, folks wont go.... Case in point, one match held a great mid range club this past summer in Minnesota had been talked about here for at least a month ahead of time. Well, it was a great success for numbers of shooters showing up.. If I am not mistaken, it broke attendance records... Effendude can speak to the numbers better.

My point is, ya gotta get the word out. We are planning 3 major mid range shoots at our club in GFK ND this yr, soon as I have all the details, I will be posting them here, so folks in the area can come, plus I will blanket the area with fliers...

I like the idea of rewarding the newbies/novices with there skills so I think that is the direction to go to further attract new shooters. Cause, like most clubs, there is one or two guys that have spent the time and the money to learn how to shoot better than 90% of the field, that win consistantly... THis is something you cant take away from these guys as they have paid their dues and earn their wins. On the same token is does get disheartening to get your a$$ handed to ya all the time. So yes I know what I need to do to win and that is to put in the time... But for the new or just getting started, I like the idea of an informal class like novice and get them a great looking certificate or equal looking award as the overall match winner...

Gotta light that fire somehow.

 

[LHSmith]

aside from the money aspect, i feel alot of guys aren't very good at making new guys feel welcome. before i started to shoot in any type of match, i visited a few ranges during their shoots. i was just there to observe. i walked around alot and just tried to make conversation. unfortunately most times i would only get 1-2 guys that were willing to talk and be personable. most others seemed "clicky" only talking to their buddy and no time to speak to the new guy. this made benchrest not so apealing.

I am sure this is the perception from most first-time observers..........but the reality is MOST of the competitors want to WIN the match, and to do so they get into the competitive ZONE as soon as they begin their set-ups, i.e. shooting bench, reloading bench, and flags. When not shooting in their relay, they are reloading and bore cleaning.....all the while scanning the flags...or watching how a rival is handling the conditions through a spotting scope.
Although every match seems to have one or two shooters who tend to be gabby, most are in deep thought about what adjustments (i.e. powder, bullet seating, tuner, amount of hold-off, picking the most prominent condition that your load likes) to make ....if any.
The best time to ask questions is AFTER the days match, and from my observations, few spectators stick around that long. After all, you wouldn't go around asking competitors advice during any other sports tournament.....at least none that I can think of. Never did F-class or longrange BR, I don't know the off-time involved, but with 7 and 10 minute matches and few relays, Point Blank BR leaves little to no spare time for a serious competitor.....in fact many times we miss lunch break especially those shooting multiple guns for different classes....there's a lot to keep on top of.

 

[effendude]

I started the F-class league here at Elk River, MN 7 years ago. There have been some highs and even a few lows during that time. F-class was unheard of the time, heck, I had only shot in one F-class match directed by Jeff Cochran a few months before down in Texas. I shot sling, with my mouse gun, and placed last over the two days. It wasn't even a fair fight. I met a bunch of great shooters and a couple of us from MN realized that while OTC attendance was declining, F-class was growing.

I made up some flyers and got them out to area gun shops and gave a few to John Walton at the Gunstop Reloading. Nearly all shooters started out with their hunting rifles. I made ladder test targets out of 1" grid paper so new shooters could confirm their clicks for 16 MOA and we started everyone off a 100 yards. Seven years later, we still start at 100 yards but we have a classroom night first to explain MOA, zeroes, etc. Experienced shooters now help the newbies the first couple weeks at 100 and 300 yards. The league is run like a match every week, same commands, scorer, pit service. Turning in your scores is optional.

I would guess over the last 6 years there have been at least 350 shooters that have come out. At the 2012 orientation session there was over 90 new shooters. The next week at 100 yards there was probably 75. By the time we were back to 600 yards a few weeks later, the number had declined to 40 or so. Most shoot for just a few weeks and drift away. A few stick with it, regardless of their proficiency. Those that stick with it are usually hooked, buying or building competitive rifles, asking questions, learning how to become better.

I believe cost is a huge factor in participation. If you don't reload, ammo is easily $50 a night. Getting started reloading isn't cheap. Hunting rifles will work for a short time, but barrels get warm and nearly always shift before the string is complete. A quality scope is needed. The costs add up real fast. We try to keep our league from becoming an equipment race, but even getting started is expensive.

Pride is the other factor that limits new shooters. My buddy Nosualc stated it perfectly: "All American men believe they are born with three traits; they can make love like Cassanova, drive like Richard Petty and shoot like Daniel Boone". Most guys, regardless of experience, feel they are pretty good shots, who wouldn't? Then you come out and shoot next to guys who are nearly cleaning or cleaning the target at 600 yards week after week. Many can't handle the realization that they need to work on developing shooting skills. They drift away and we never see them again. Again, we don't collect scores and don't belittle anyone who shoots poorly. Some just don't like having to work at becoming good.

Scott

 

[MNFinn]

2 members on this forum are the main reason that I got into competition. This coming summer, I'll finally be able to take my own gear out to shoot. But it was the efforts of those 2 guys who got me hooked. I really think that having people who are willing to mentor and, when needed, to loan out equipment, really helps open the sport up to newbies

 

[nosualc]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post, that I heard that my local club had this informal f-class league and I started to go because I was interested in become a better rifle shot (hunting).

I had no interest whatsoever in shooting competitively. I would have never sought it out. It was only AFTER participating that I got the competitive bug, I didn't even attend a match until my second year.

My point is that if you want to attract new people to your sport (whatever it is), you have to make it easy for them to get their feet wet.

-nosualc

ps -

My buddy Nosualc stated it perfectly: "All American men believe they are born with three traits; they can make love like Cassanova, drive like Richard Petty and shoot like Daniel Boone"

In the interest of full disclosure, I stole that quote from Darrel Holland.

 

[BoydAllen]

I will offer one or two thoughts to this discussion.

Competition shooters are a small percentage of a larger group of recreational shooters that have become interested in such things as rifle tuning and reloading. If you want to increase the number of shooters that compete, I think that efforts to interest shooters that primarily shoot unmodified rifles, and factory ammunition in the next step up should be considered. I know that this is a long ways from inviting someone from a match, but to grow a plant, you need to water the roots.

The problem is that competition shooters generally already have maxed out their usage of recreational time on all of the various activities related to competing, and therefore do not have the time to do the necessary root watering.

There is also the problem of interest. If you are working as close as you can get to the leading edge of your sport, spending a lot of time helping someone take baby steps may be a bit boring, particularly if they are not strongly attracted to dealing with all of the little details involved in the more advanced areas of the sport.

IMO the thing that had the greatest influence in creating my interest in the more technical aspects of shooting was the writing, books and magazines. At the time, we did not have the internet, so the magazine racks and libraries were the only source of information. Today, I think that many have lost, or never developed much of a reading habit, except for the internet, and unlike the magazine rack that showed a variety of magazines to the casual passer by, if someone does not go looking for something on the internet, he may remain unaware that it exists.

So where does this leave us? I think that taking friends to the range, and making sure that they have a good time, so that they want to do it again is a good start. Beyond that, helping shooters that seem to be likely candidates for a more sophisticated approach to the sport would be next on the list. Somewhere in there would be finding a way to support one or more of the various junior shooter programs.

Like every other human, I always look for a quick fix, but some things require a more long term approach.

Back in the day, I got involved in helping to run a rifle and pistol club, not because it was always so much fun, but because I knew that having the right to have firearms did not mean nearly as much if there was no place to shoot them, and that for the long term survival of the things that I value and enjoy, young people would need a place to have the kind of experiences that I was lucky enough to have had in my youth.

 

[Ray Gross]

Open practice days or a "newcomer" day should be a part if a clubs calendar at least twice a year.

I was so nervous my first match and made a lot of mistakes because a match is geared to competition....not showing the newcomer the ropes of how a match is conducted.

I think that can really help if the folks at the practice or an informal league are welcoming and helpful. Plus it will really help if the folks running a practice/league are not dogmatic about the rules. For those competing for prizes- yes the rules matter and should be enforced, but for the newbie with his/her tactical rifle and muzzle brake, etc., let them shoot and ask questions and learn.

 

[Terry]

I would if there were any close to here.

Where is here?

 

[jimbo88mm]

There are a lot of ARs out there few competition options. Currently the only options for a typical AR shooter is 3 gun, which requires the added expense of a pistol and shotgun, and service rifle which has strict configuration rules that eliminate most of the ARs people own.

It would be nice if there were a semi-auto class for both fclass and br.


Clinics are great. I attended my first in August and plan to shoot in a couple of matches.. the biggest issue for me is time and distance.

 

[savagedasher]

Terry Here is my thoughts.Competitive shooting it has caught up to stock car racing.when it started it was just a stock action good barrel and allot of hard work.Today you can buy everything it takes to win.So next rules were made to try to handicap the gun. Didn't work or never will. long range shooting i feel should be handicap the shooter by ability like pro armature novice beginner. Most long range shoots are won by light class and if not by the same shooters in heavy class. All have only 1 winner the rest are all losers or whiners and some are both.Winners will always Win. They work had to win. The club where i shoot has about700 members we have a shoot every Saturday.4yrs ago we had 8 to 12 shoot.Now we have16 to 20 . Only rules we have is have fun and do your best along with safety.The guns weight very10 to 65lb sound UN fair guess what only 5 of the 40 shoots has Ben won with the heavy guns. 8 shooters have won almost all.So my belief is think about handicap the shooter not the equipment it worked here .GoodShooting Larry

 

[effendude]

There are a lot of ARs out there few competition options. Currently the only options for a typical AR shooter is 3 gun, which requires the added expense of a pistol and shotgun, and service rifle which has strict configuration rules that eliminate most of the ARs people own.

It would be nice if there were a semi-auto class for both fclass and br.

Jimbo,
AR's are welcome at any F-class or Midrange match. I recommend long barreled flat top AR's to most of the new shooters interested in Midrange F-class. For the longest time, fast twist barreled production bolt rifles in .223 were not easily available. The same can be said for other calibers. AR's are easy to shoot, easy to reload for, and amazing accurate for a semi-auto. A flat top 24" barreled AR with a 1-8" twist barrel is easy to find and has a pictinnay rail already on it. Scope and bipod or bags gets a shooter started. Single round loading isn't as much fun a shooting from the mag, but it isn't hard to do even without a sled or single round follower in a mag. Shooters who complain about having to single round load need to get over it.

An AR may not win many matches, but the shooter will be off to a great start on the learning curve of accurate shooting at longer distances. AR's hold their resale, and everyone should own one or five anyway.
Scott

 

[jimbo88mm]

There are a lot of ARs out there few competition options. Currently the only options for a typical AR shooter is 3 gun, which requires the added expense of a pistol and shotgun, and service rifle which has strict configuration rules that eliminate most of the ARs people own.

It would be nice if there were a semi-auto class for both fclass and br.

Jimbo,
AR's are welcome at any F-class or Midrange match.

Yep, I know

I took my AR (20 inch bull barrel) to a clinic but haven't participated in a real match yet. I'm single loading 80gr Nosler CCs over varget.

If we want to get more shooters involved with shooting competition there has to be a class for the most common config. FClass doesn't allow flash hiders/brakes and you have to single load. Service rifle class has to look like a stock M-16. Those two limitations eliminates 90% of the ARs that are currently out there.

 

[CZ550]

Most new shooters need a mentor more than anything else. Without several people going out of their way to answer my questions and at times invite me over and show me the nuances of reloading for BR I would probably given up in frustration. Give em your phone number, offer to help work up a load ect. You never know you might make a new friend.

 

[truman]

talk up your part of the sport. have business cards printed with clubs, group, or person to contact with e-mail and/or phone. get their contact info. send them match flyers. provide gear, ammo, personal coach when people show. if not a registered tournament "bend" the rules to accomodate casual shooters. (make provision for muzzle device separation) expect virtually no results but continue anyway. remember you are looking for diamonds in a slag dump. lucky to get 5% of people that try, to continue more than 1-2 times. compare number of gun owners vs. number of people that shoot in competition. people will have all kinds of excuses which all boil down to instant gratification with minimal effort. doesn't happen, you and i both accept that fact, most do not. society today. keep plugging!

 

[kentuckytroutbum]

There are a lot of ARs out there few competition options. Currently the only options for a typical AR shooter is 3 gun, which requires the added expense of a pistol and shotgun, and service rifle which has strict configuration rules that eliminate most of the ARs people own.

One thing that has probably not been mentioned is NRA High Power. I shoot my 6.5 Grendel on an AR platform with a 26" barrel, match iron sights, etc., etc. Since it does not comply with the "Service Rifle", it falls into the category of "Match Rifle" per the NRA Rules. In our club, match rifles have beaten the service rifles on a regular basis.

Bill

 

[RStewart]

We created our Field Precision Rifle matches at Palo Alto primarily for 2 reasons-
1- It affords folks the oppurtunity to shoot their rifles that don't fit into a NRA classification (we allow suppressors and muzzle brakes) and
2- It allows new shooters to come out and play without feeling any pressure and we can coach them through it.

We use the matches as a chance to coach/mentor new folks and have seen the ranks of our FTR shooters in our NRA matches swell over the last year from shooters coming from the FPR matches. We also award medals.

Last weekend we had 16 shooters just at the FPR match. We now average 33+ at our Mid-Range/Prone matches.

So, if you have any sway at a club, I would try to set up some type of match where new people can come shoot without a big investment. And if they like it, they can get into FTR relatively cheaply while they practice and get better.

Just my $.02.