Background: I'm new to reloading, 3 years, loading for one rifle, RPR 6.5cr. Using Hornady 140 & 147gr ELDM bullets, H4350, CCI BR2 and Fed 210 GMM, Hornady brass bought as 140gr ELDM ammo, now 1-5 fired, and new Nosler brass. I've been doing OCW and seat depth testing with a float mounted V3 chrono. I anneal and trim brass, use Redding body die, bushing die and Comp seater with VLD stem. I balance beam each load. I just read that I should size the new Nosler brass first (oops!), and that it takes 2-3 firings to size it to the chamber. I have 200 more new Nosler brass; is there a useful way to get this into action w/o making a ton of foulers from it? Could I test OCW on 10-20 then use that charge node to load the other 180? Can I use the jump distance my gun likes with 3+ fired brass as a start for the virgin brass? Sorry for long (first) post, been reading and learning here for 3 years. Thanks very much, Bruce
how do I bring new brass into the loading rotation?
- Thread starter BruceWayne
- Start date
Load a few and see if it makes any difference. Keep it simple.
If you have a node identified you should be able to find that speed in a few rounds. I would expect a few less tenths of your current load. Try and normalize neck tension on the new brass to reduce fliers
What are you using the loads for?
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
I believe that unless you are on the gilt-edge of competition benchrest precision, a single fire forming shot is enough to make precision brass.
I currently don't compete so I use my brass in groups of 20-25. I start with 25 and shoot them all together about 10 times. So for one fire forming shot I get about 10 quality shots per brass - not much barrel wear coming from the formers. I shoot 2-5 foulers before my 25 rounds, so I generate formed brass faster than I can consume it.
If you're wondering about the virgin brass performance, load some and see what the target tells you.
I don't FLS my virgin brass before I shoot it because it chambers just fine. That practice is most important for tight match chambers.
I currently don't compete so I use my brass in groups of 20-25. I start with 25 and shoot them all together about 10 times. So for one fire forming shot I get about 10 quality shots per brass - not much barrel wear coming from the formers. I shoot 2-5 foulers before my 25 rounds, so I generate formed brass faster than I can consume it.
If you're wondering about the virgin brass performance, load some and see what the target tells you.
I don't FLS my virgin brass before I shoot it because it chambers just fine. That practice is most important for tight match chambers.
Batman-
I would keep them separated from the rest. Otherwise, sooner or later you are going to reach a point where the older cases are going to start going bad on you and then you will be faced with the problem of tossing the 100 of the old or 200 including the newer ones. The 50 or 100 unit plastic boxes are cheap enough to work on and load and keep separate.
I would keep them separated from the rest. Otherwise, sooner or later you are going to reach a point where the older cases are going to start going bad on you and then you will be faced with the problem of tossing the 100 of the old or 200 including the newer ones. The 50 or 100 unit plastic boxes are cheap enough to work on and load and keep separate.
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
Agree with this
You don’t need to worry about shooting new brass 2-3x with the setup you describe. Load em and shoot
Just shoot in batches and toss em when the time comes
I find Peterson to be very similar to Lapua in my 260 Improved. Noticeable difference between Hornady and formed Federal and Winchester 243 brass. My rifle doesn’t like the small primer brass though, I get piercing/plugging with it. I use the same action, it’s a switch barrel, with 22Br with no problems and I run them a bit warm. That’s with Lapua and Norma brass, soooo, not sure what’s going on here?
Bruce,
Just shoot more often and realize that barrels are disposable. If you have 400 pieces of brass at your disposal and as long as you take care of them, they should outlast at least 4 barrels. Order 2 more barrels now and don’t worry about firing virgin, once, or twice fired brass unless you are headed to a major match. Conversations around needing to fire brass 2-3 times is for those on this forum that are competing at a very high level.
Liven The Dream
Gold $$ Contributor
I maybe a little strange ?
New Brass , complete Prep .
Prime , weight Sort . Lt , Av , Hv.
Place in Ammo Boxes by weight .
Mark Box New Av etc .
After firing New keep them in order of firing .
Next box would be once firing . And then 2nd till scrap .
New Brass , complete Prep .
Prime , weight Sort . Lt , Av , Hv.
Place in Ammo Boxes by weight .
Mark Box New Av etc .
After firing New keep them in order of firing .
Next box would be once firing . And then 2nd till scrap .
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Hi, thanks for the insight, it's very helpful.
I'm loading for fun shooting 100yd to get consistent enough MV so I can eventually take it to a longer range out of state. I started with Hornady 140 ELDM ammo in a new rifle, which it loved. I started loading using the Hornady ammo brass and got stuck with 'non Lapua' b/c of primer size, Hornady is only large and Lapua is only small. I've keep brass separated by brand and times fired using zip locks. I have ~165, 2-5x fired hornady, ~100 1-2x fired Nosler and the 200 new Nosler.
I don't mind sizing the new Nosler, I didn't know if it would be useful w/o being fire formed and if it needs sizing. I've been using a 289 bushing w/expander button based on advice to use expander for cheap brass.
Based on the good advice above, I'll load 3 sets of 5-6 centered slightly under my node; one set sized 289 with expander ball as previous, one set not sized (virgin), one set sized 290 w/o expander ball. If this produces a node, I'll probably plan on loading the rest to that result. I'm very open to more suggestions. Thanks very much for the help, regards, Bruce
I'm loading for fun shooting 100yd to get consistent enough MV so I can eventually take it to a longer range out of state. I started with Hornady 140 ELDM ammo in a new rifle, which it loved. I started loading using the Hornady ammo brass and got stuck with 'non Lapua' b/c of primer size, Hornady is only large and Lapua is only small. I've keep brass separated by brand and times fired using zip locks. I have ~165, 2-5x fired hornady, ~100 1-2x fired Nosler and the 200 new Nosler.
I don't mind sizing the new Nosler, I didn't know if it would be useful w/o being fire formed and if it needs sizing. I've been using a 289 bushing w/expander button based on advice to use expander for cheap brass.
Based on the good advice above, I'll load 3 sets of 5-6 centered slightly under my node; one set sized 289 with expander ball as previous, one set not sized (virgin), one set sized 290 w/o expander ball. If this produces a node, I'll probably plan on loading the rest to that result. I'm very open to more suggestions. Thanks very much for the help, regards, Bruce
I threw away all my mixed brass , wasn’t worth the powder to blow um to h..l
I use cheap bullets to fire form new brass after a mandrel to even out the neck ID introducing 50 maybe -100 at a time. life is good... groups look better etc etc
I use cheap bullets to fire form new brass after a mandrel to even out the neck ID introducing 50 maybe -100 at a time. life is good... groups look better etc etc
Hi David, I keep track of the brass times fired so if one fails I can consider scrapping the whole bag. That is an awesome excuse to buy a new barrel now, love it!! Never thought of getting one early, it has 946 rounds now in 3 years and 2019 was only 150 due to a medical issue. I hear 2000-2500 is the life. Thanks, Bruce
Once fired you may move back to your node charge, but I dont know the volume difference in the hornaday vs lapua. Your first test groups should sort this out fairly quickly. I would keep them in different boxes after cleaning due to loading differences you may find. Dont trash the brass when a lot gets tired, it's great to learn to turn on and setup if you plan to aneal. It's also great for trimming setup.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Keep brass from different Lot#s separate, or brass from the same Lot# that has a different total number of firings. If you have more of the same Lot# of brass, you can start prepping a new batch for that same rifle whenever you like, just don't mix it in with brass from the same Lot# until they have been fired the same number of times. I keep various brass preps in medium- to large-sized plastic food containers. I label each container lid (masking tape) with the date, the specific rifle it's for, the total number of firings, and the Lot#.
FWIW - with virgin brass, I do the following:
1) check/uniform the flashholes
2) open up the necks with oversized expander mandrel (.001" under bullet diameter)
3) FL size the brass with a bushing die/bushing that gives ~.002" neck tension
4) clean
5) trim/chamfer
The main thing this process really accomplishes is to make the necks much more uniform than they would be straight out of the box. In my hands, virgin brass prepped this way shoots very, very well. In fact, I shoot virgin brass in local F-TR matches fairly regularly, and have been quite satisfied with the results. However, it all depends on what you intend to do with it; it may not be entirely satisfactory for all shooting disciplines, especially those where uber-precision is essential. My point is that for many purposes, you don't have to treat rounds loaded in virgin brass as solely as foulers, or put hundreds of rounds into the dirt just to fire-form the brass and get nothing else useful in return. As long as you appreciate the fact that a load developed in virgin brass will generally need to be re-optimized once the brass has been fire-formed, there is no reason you can't get some enjoyment and/or good use out of virgin brass, and start learning a little bit about what the rifle wants in order to shoot well. After all, most commercial ammo is made with virgin brass and it works just fine for a variety of uses if you carefully select a brand that shoots well in your setup.
Once the brass has all been fire-formed and prepped again, you will usually have to tweak the load to reflect the differences between virgin and fire-formed brass. That may include and slight adjustment of the charge weight and/or seating depth. However, the necessary adjustments are typically fairly small. The shoulders of virgin brass will typically be shorter than fire-formed by as much as .006" to.008", so "undersized" virgin brass has a little more freedom of movement in the chamber, which can affect the desired seating depth optimum. But again, tweaking a load as you go from virgin brass to fire-formed doesn't usually require huge changes. FWIW - I remove the expander ball from every bushing die I purchase. However, unless the necks have been flat-spotted due to a strong ejector spring, I do not find it necessary to use the OS expander mandrel step on subsequent brass preps because the necks usually open up larger than the mandrel after firing.
FWIW - with virgin brass, I do the following:
1) check/uniform the flashholes
2) open up the necks with oversized expander mandrel (.001" under bullet diameter)
3) FL size the brass with a bushing die/bushing that gives ~.002" neck tension
4) clean
5) trim/chamfer
The main thing this process really accomplishes is to make the necks much more uniform than they would be straight out of the box. In my hands, virgin brass prepped this way shoots very, very well. In fact, I shoot virgin brass in local F-TR matches fairly regularly, and have been quite satisfied with the results. However, it all depends on what you intend to do with it; it may not be entirely satisfactory for all shooting disciplines, especially those where uber-precision is essential. My point is that for many purposes, you don't have to treat rounds loaded in virgin brass as solely as foulers, or put hundreds of rounds into the dirt just to fire-form the brass and get nothing else useful in return. As long as you appreciate the fact that a load developed in virgin brass will generally need to be re-optimized once the brass has been fire-formed, there is no reason you can't get some enjoyment and/or good use out of virgin brass, and start learning a little bit about what the rifle wants in order to shoot well. After all, most commercial ammo is made with virgin brass and it works just fine for a variety of uses if you carefully select a brand that shoots well in your setup.
Once the brass has all been fire-formed and prepped again, you will usually have to tweak the load to reflect the differences between virgin and fire-formed brass. That may include and slight adjustment of the charge weight and/or seating depth. However, the necessary adjustments are typically fairly small. The shoulders of virgin brass will typically be shorter than fire-formed by as much as .006" to.008", so "undersized" virgin brass has a little more freedom of movement in the chamber, which can affect the desired seating depth optimum. But again, tweaking a load as you go from virgin brass to fire-formed doesn't usually require huge changes. FWIW - I remove the expander ball from every bushing die I purchase. However, unless the necks have been flat-spotted due to a strong ejector spring, I do not find it necessary to use the OS expander mandrel step on subsequent brass preps because the necks usually open up larger than the mandrel after firing.
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Thanks Ned, great advice, I like your new brass prep theory, I'll head in the same direction. I've been reading other threads about mandrels before posting my question, and it makes sense to me to use a mandrel instead of the expander ball on the new brass. Basically it's; expand precisely and bushing size, versus bushing size and expand so-so (expander). I have the RCBS collet bullet puller so I'll get some mandrels or gauge pins and use that for starters. Thanks again, Bruce
Longtrain
Gold $$ Contributor
I used to keep things segregated, not so much now. I FF my Dasher brass from Lapua BR brass using the same method as always. I will shoot this brass separately until it has two firings on it, usually practice and mid-range matches. Then my current batch (200) will be used for LR and rolled into the cycle.
Dasher brass doesn’t stretch very much, so trimming is at a minimum. If I come across brass that doesn’t size correctly or has a loose primer pocket, it will be culled out. Once fired, it is deprimed and set aside for further processing. With 800 pieces of brass it takes a while for that piece to come around to being fired again.
Dasher brass doesn’t stretch very much, so trimming is at a minimum. If I come across brass that doesn’t size correctly or has a loose primer pocket, it will be culled out. Once fired, it is deprimed and set aside for further processing. With 800 pieces of brass it takes a while for that piece to come around to being fired again.
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