Hi everyone, I am new to rifle shooting, just bought a Savage Arms 93R17 GLV which is a left hand model 17HMR. I am a right handed person but in a car accident I lost the sight permanently in my right eye so I have to shoot left handed now. I put a Cabela's Pine Ridge scope on the rifle and have been enjoying shooting it at 100 yards. The scope is 1/4" MOA. Now for my real question. I only intend to use the rifle as a paper puncher and want to eventually become respectably accurate and shoot at least 1 MOA or better. Right now at 100 yards, after putting about 250 rounds through my rifle (Hornady 17 grain V-max rounds), I am shooting 2" groups. Can anyone help me understand what I should be trying to do mechanically with my body while bench rest shooting to help improve this to 1" groups? Maybe better ammo? Any suggestions with anything would be helpful since I really don't know much about this target shooting stuff yet. Thanks!
How can I improve my 17HMR accuracy?
- Thread starter mjchevalier
- Start date
Let me also say that I am only interested in bench shooting. I would be open to another caliber rifle if accuracy would be better if the rounds are not too expensive. I have heard that 17hmr can be affected pretty severely by the wind. I also failed to mention that I am shooting with a Harris 6"-9" bipod and also using a sandbag for rear stock stability. I am looking for accuracy tips with shooting style as well as recommendations for accurate ammo, and even recommendations for another accurate caliber rifle that is economic to shoot. thanks.
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
Well, the following are my thoughts on the issue of accuracy. BTW, I shoot strictly Benchrest anymore and am still having tons of fun after some 50+ years of shooting all sorts of weapons. But IMHO, there are three components to accuracy shooting which are: 1. The Shooter 2. The equipment used. 3. Prevailing conditions including ambient temps and wind conditions. Something that is very basic is that the smaller the caliber, the more susceptible it is to wind. I shoot .22 Rimfire for local competition and even on a slightly windy day, the scores go down, even for your top shooters.
As far as the equipment goes, shooting off a tripod will work for those who have plenty of experience because of the recoil effect that some weapons could have on accuracy. Another factor is how much are you willing to spend for that accuracy. The basic element, the rifle can have a dramatic effect on accuracy. I have to say, that of the lesser expensive rifles on the market (those in the $300 - $400) range, the most accurate rifles I have found are the Savages as they come out of the box. Next would come a rest which again is open to debate based on what you are trying to accomplish. I've found that buying and using a Caldwell "The Rock" model, there is sufficient support and adjustability to shoot groups under 1" at 100 yards when shooting good ammos. Is it as good as a serious Benchrest model rest that runs in the $800 - 1500 range... heck no. But that is the same as the unrealistic belief that a $400 rifle can shoot as well as an Anschutz which sells for $1250 or more. But for fun, buying a nice (not necessarily expensive rest) and a nice rear bag for support (and good ammo for your particular rifle), can achieve much success and happiness to shooters looking to improve their skills.
Now I will admit, I've never owned a 17 HMR, but have seen several of them shot. That small a caliber is fighting several issues once it leaves the barrel (such as rapidly declining velocity and wind) that would affect consistency and therefore accuracy as well. In short, you can do many things to improve the consistency of your ammo as well as your skills, but the basic capability of the caliber is not improved by buying a nifty rest and improving your shooting skills. So be reasonable in your expectations so that disappointment doesn't set in and you decide the effort isn't worth the fun.
The small caliber thing can really be super fun and drain your bank account. Trust me, a few centerfire Benchrest buddies got me into the .22 Benchrest craze a few years ago and it can get wildly expensive as well. But to be sure, I have as much fun shooting any of my rimfire rifles as I do my super accurate centerfire ones. Just know what you want to accomplish and proceed from there. There are plenty of us (me included) who are experts at wasting money and buying the wrong stuff for our purposes. Just ask and I'm sure there are plenty of good shooters having tons of experience who can steer you in the right direction and give instruction on how to use the equipment, no matter the price.. After that, it's all up to you.
Hope that helps, but most of all, HAVE FUN!
As far as the equipment goes, shooting off a tripod will work for those who have plenty of experience because of the recoil effect that some weapons could have on accuracy. Another factor is how much are you willing to spend for that accuracy. The basic element, the rifle can have a dramatic effect on accuracy. I have to say, that of the lesser expensive rifles on the market (those in the $300 - $400) range, the most accurate rifles I have found are the Savages as they come out of the box. Next would come a rest which again is open to debate based on what you are trying to accomplish. I've found that buying and using a Caldwell "The Rock" model, there is sufficient support and adjustability to shoot groups under 1" at 100 yards when shooting good ammos. Is it as good as a serious Benchrest model rest that runs in the $800 - 1500 range... heck no. But that is the same as the unrealistic belief that a $400 rifle can shoot as well as an Anschutz which sells for $1250 or more. But for fun, buying a nice (not necessarily expensive rest) and a nice rear bag for support (and good ammo for your particular rifle), can achieve much success and happiness to shooters looking to improve their skills.
Now I will admit, I've never owned a 17 HMR, but have seen several of them shot. That small a caliber is fighting several issues once it leaves the barrel (such as rapidly declining velocity and wind) that would affect consistency and therefore accuracy as well. In short, you can do many things to improve the consistency of your ammo as well as your skills, but the basic capability of the caliber is not improved by buying a nifty rest and improving your shooting skills. So be reasonable in your expectations so that disappointment doesn't set in and you decide the effort isn't worth the fun.
The small caliber thing can really be super fun and drain your bank account. Trust me, a few centerfire Benchrest buddies got me into the .22 Benchrest craze a few years ago and it can get wildly expensive as well. But to be sure, I have as much fun shooting any of my rimfire rifles as I do my super accurate centerfire ones. Just know what you want to accomplish and proceed from there. There are plenty of us (me included) who are experts at wasting money and buying the wrong stuff for our purposes. Just ask and I'm sure there are plenty of good shooters having tons of experience who can steer you in the right direction and give instruction on how to use the equipment, no matter the price.. After that, it's all up to you.
Hope that helps, but most of all, HAVE FUN!
hogpatrol
Silver $$ Contributor
I've sighted in a few Savage 17HMRs. They didn't start to shoot very well until after about 100 rds. CCI TNT ammo was the most accurate in all but try the different loadings available, the Speer TNTs, Hornady Vmax, 20gr game points, 20gr FMJs and the 15.5 all copper. Also, if you are only shooting paper, consider a fixed higher power scope instead of your 3-9. Good Luck!
I was pretty much in the same boat, I don't reload and just want to be better and more consistent. With my .17 hmr. I found that buying a $60.00 electric scale and weighing my ammo and seperating it into weight groups has helped me be more consistent with my groups. That was with the same ammo you listed in your post.
I also bought a Caldwell front rest and a Badger Ordnance Bone Sand Bag ($24.99 on MidwayUSA) rest that I use for a rear rest. Oh yeah and I got. Limbsaver X-ring that is supposed to help with barrel vibration.
Those 4 things have helped me along with the most important thing. More time behind the trigger.
I am no expert by any means but I love to read and those are some recommendations from other articles I have read and people from here and some other forums.
I also bought a Caldwell front rest and a Badger Ordnance Bone Sand Bag ($24.99 on MidwayUSA) rest that I use for a rear rest. Oh yeah and I got. Limbsaver X-ring that is supposed to help with barrel vibration.
Those 4 things have helped me along with the most important thing. More time behind the trigger.
I am no expert by any means but I love to read and those are some recommendations from other articles I have read and people from here and some other forums.
I think someone's already been here but I tried 4 different ammo types in my CZ452. The best was CCI 20grain game point whereas the go-to Hornady 17grain VMAX was the worst. At 50yards these were .38" and 1.15" for five shot groups off a bench rest and a butt bag with a 12 power scope. The other types were Hornady 20grain VSHOCK and CCI 17grain Varmint (HP) which were 0.7" groups.
I got this far with a fair bit of fiddling as it didn't start this way: floated barrel, rebedding and a crowning job. I also upgraded the trigger to a Timney unit set to 0.7kg...very nice but not cheap. I also now run it with a Leupold 8.5-25x50mm scope...
The 17's ok but not a 22BR nor a 22-250. Good enough for short (i.e. <130yard) range bunnies & crows but nothing "out there" and, sadly, not a short cut to long range shooting without reloading.
I got this far with a fair bit of fiddling as it didn't start this way: floated barrel, rebedding and a crowning job. I also upgraded the trigger to a Timney unit set to 0.7kg...very nice but not cheap. I also now run it with a Leupold 8.5-25x50mm scope...
The 17's ok but not a 22BR nor a 22-250. Good enough for short (i.e. <130yard) range bunnies & crows but nothing "out there" and, sadly, not a short cut to long range shooting without reloading.
Both of my Savage 93's responded well to a bedding job. As others have said, try other ammo, alot of Savages like 20 grain bullets. While you are bedding it there is a thicker bottom metal that will help with the screw torque. Rimfire central has alot of good info from MOST of the posters.
my wife's Savage 93R17 BTVSS left hand is scary accurate. at 100 yds, in low wind conditions, it shoots from the mid .3's to about an inch using CCI TNT ammo, which is the most consistently accurate we tried.
she shot ten five shot groups yesterday from the bench with a Sinclair F/TR bipod. aggregate average for all 10 groups was .62"!! the best group was .35"!!
we put in the Apache Accutrigger mod, which cut the trigger pull weight almost in half. we also installed the thicker bottom metal allowing for a bit more torque on the action screws. (not much more or you will crack the stock). scope is a Mueller 32x
she is thrilled with the way this little rifle shoots and also likes the pretty wood stock
she shot ten five shot groups yesterday from the bench with a Sinclair F/TR bipod. aggregate average for all 10 groups was .62"!! the best group was .35"!!
we put in the Apache Accutrigger mod, which cut the trigger pull weight almost in half. we also installed the thicker bottom metal allowing for a bit more torque on the action screws. (not much more or you will crack the stock). scope is a Mueller 32x
she is thrilled with the way this little rifle shoots and also likes the pretty wood stock
I've messed with a few savage 17s and I use a bipod for almost everything. The ones I have used shot very well after the barrel got seasoned and in one case fixed a few minor things. First make sure the barrel is free floated, and the forearm doesn't flex into the barrel when on the bipod. I would also bed the action, The DP heavy bottom metal is nice and let's you get consistent tourqe but with a good bedding job it's not 100% necessity. Adjust the trigger nice and light and shoot it. They have always shot better with a seasoned bore so I wouldn't clean the bore. That's my two cents.
As far as another accurate relatively cheap cartridge to shoot. It sure is hard to beat a .223
As far as another accurate relatively cheap cartridge to shoot. It sure is hard to beat a .223
I have an Anschutz 1517 (17 HMR) and I love it. But I don't expect totally great accuracy for it, though I might stumble across a batch of ammo that would tickle the cockles of my heart.
One of the main problems we 17 HMR owners seem to face is that there isn't the variety of ammo manufacturers and loads available for it (different target loads, different HV, different standard velocity, HP, "Stinger", bulk, etc.) as there are for a .22LR. (Footnote)
Also, unlike the .22RF, there are no competition loads for the .17 HMR. So the odds of finding ammo that shoots really well in a .17 HMR are far less than for the .22 RF.
Footnote: In the past, almost all .17 HMR ammo was, I believe, loaded by CCI but packaged with different bullets and different labels. Then Winchester started making their own ammo, and they had major problems. Don't know what the situation is now.
One of the main problems we 17 HMR owners seem to face is that there isn't the variety of ammo manufacturers and loads available for it (different target loads, different HV, different standard velocity, HP, "Stinger", bulk, etc.) as there are for a .22LR. (Footnote)
Also, unlike the .22RF, there are no competition loads for the .17 HMR. So the odds of finding ammo that shoots really well in a .17 HMR are far less than for the .22 RF.
Footnote: In the past, almost all .17 HMR ammo was, I believe, loaded by CCI but packaged with different bullets and different labels. Then Winchester started making their own ammo, and they had major problems. Don't know what the situation is now.
Also if you buy a certain lot number of ammo and it shoots well...then go back and buy as much of the same lot number of
ammo you can get...buy as many cases as you can ...I'm still shooting and waiting for some ammo that will
shoot a bit better in my rifle but have not found the magic lot number of ammo yet.
...While I don't shoot my
17hmr as much as my other rifles it would be nice if I could shoot MOA consistently....there seems to always
be that annoying flyer that wrecks the group.
ammo you can get...buy as many cases as you can ...I'm still shooting and waiting for some ammo that will
shoot a bit better in my rifle but have not found the magic lot number of ammo yet.
...While I don't shoot my 17hmr as much as my other rifles it would be nice if I could shoot MOA consistently....there seems to always
be that annoying flyer that wrecks the group.
I have been very fortunate with my 17hmr.
I have the same left handed rifle as you. (Savage Arms 93R17 GLV) but I'm left handed. I have a mid level Mueller 4x14 power scope on it. It's my short range groundhog gun. (under 125 yards and head shots only) or my squirrel gun (after the leaves fall off). In the spring (hogs), I sight it in at 100 yards, in the fall (squirrels) I sight it in at 35-40 yards.
I have only shot the 17gr vmax rounds.....nothing else. This is because the first time I shot it at 100 yards I was getting groups smaller than a nickle....a few were smaller than a dime. I was shocked. (Bipod up front, sand bag in the back) I'm not a reloader or the same level of enthusiast as most of the people on this forum. So to be able to shoot such groups with a cheap factory rifle/scope with factory ammo....and my limited ability....I just packed up and left with a smile on my face. I was shocked at the accuracy.
Others have offered advice. I would add: Let someone else shoot it. Do they get the same groups?
I have the same left handed rifle as you. (Savage Arms 93R17 GLV) but I'm left handed. I have a mid level Mueller 4x14 power scope on it. It's my short range groundhog gun. (under 125 yards and head shots only) or my squirrel gun (after the leaves fall off). In the spring (hogs), I sight it in at 100 yards, in the fall (squirrels) I sight it in at 35-40 yards.
I have only shot the 17gr vmax rounds.....nothing else. This is because the first time I shot it at 100 yards I was getting groups smaller than a nickle....a few were smaller than a dime. I was shocked. (Bipod up front, sand bag in the back) I'm not a reloader or the same level of enthusiast as most of the people on this forum. So to be able to shoot such groups with a cheap factory rifle/scope with factory ammo....and my limited ability....I just packed up and left with a smile on my face. I was shocked at the accuracy.
Others have offered advice. I would add: Let someone else shoot it. Do they get the same groups?
my wife's Savage 93R17 BTVSS left hand is scary accurate. at 100 yds, in low wind conditions, it shoots from the mid .3's to about an inch using CCI TNT ammo, which is the most consistently accurate we tried.
she shot ten five shot groups yesterday from the bench with a Sinclair F/TR bipod. aggregate average for all 10 groups was .62"!! the best group was .35"!!
we put in the Apache Accutrigger mod, which cut the trigger pull weight almost in half. we also installed the thicker bottom metal allowing for a bit more torque on the action screws. (not much more or you will crack the stock). scope is a Mueller 32x
she is thrilled with the way this little rifle shoots and also likes the pretty wood stock
TheOtherZilla
Pull my finger
Quality scope. For range shooting I like a high power so I can really see the target. I have a 17 hummer but it only goes to the range to check zero. it's a pdawg nightmare.. But I know from working loads up that I group better on the range with my 20 power scope than the 3-9 or 4-12's i usually use.
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
I think the general cry is 'why doesn't someone make good 17HMR ammo' in any manner at all?
Winchester 17HMR is junk. CCI 17HMR is OK. Would be nice to have something that's actually good.
say what you want i started measuring the a
ammo and then stared keeping it sorted i finally found a size that my gun liked like shooting O,s at 50 yards. started with Winchester that was the best when i could no longer find that size tried other brands and found some that would shoot as good you might sort a brick and be lucky to find a box of 50 that will shoot so when you find the ones you want buy many bricks because one day that will run out. Won every club match in shot in for 5 years with a off the shelf Savage. Good Luck
ammo and then stared keeping it sorted i finally found a size that my gun liked like shooting O,s at 50 yards. started with Winchester that was the best when i could no longer find that size tried other brands and found some that would shoot as good you might sort a brick and be lucky to find a box of 50 that will shoot so when you find the ones you want buy many bricks because one day that will run out. Won every club match in shot in for 5 years with a off the shelf Savage. Good Luck
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