How Are Varmints & Coyotes Harmful? Benefit of Shooting?

[roadkill61]

Toworrow my buddy and I are off to spend copulus amounts of money helping our poor rancher friend with his prairie dog problem. I am preatty sure the motel,resturant,gas station, walmart, liquor store(for sundowns to help with the mental crullity at shooting defenceless animals), Tire Shops (I usually cut down two each trip) will all be glad we came. please excuse the poor spelling.

 

[Lapua40X]

Ranchers/Farmers grow a lot of alfalfa in the northern part of our state and ground squirrels raise havoc with the crops causing significant financial losses to the property owner each year. The alfalfa growers who also raise cattle lose livestock due to injuries caused by their stepping in ground squirrel burrows. A cow with a broken leg has no market value; got any idea what a black Angus is worth?
Coyotes in the country side and foothills kill fawns and, when they find their way into suburban developments, carry off pet cats and dogs for dinner. They've even been known to attack small children.
Wild boars attack crops, eating everything in sight, and they destroy farmland by turning up budding crops that haven't come to maturity.
When I kill ground squirrels the eagles, seagulls, hawks, ravens and other birds flock to the killing field to feed on the carcases. No, the bullets don't leave lead in the carcass to endanger the scavengers. To be certain, I've looked at, into and through many hundreds that I've "neutralized" and never found the slightest evidence of bullet remnants in the carcass. They just blow up when those high velocity varmint bullets find their mark.

 

[pacificman]

I will add that personally I would like to do away with most predators (wolves, hawks, coyote, snakes, etc.) as they kill a lot of game that is beneficial to man.

What is a hawk or snake eating that is beneficial to man? I have kept snakes for decades, and most (but not all) eat rodents. Same for hawks (who also eat snakes). Just curious. - Phil

The hawk will eat quail and their eggs along with Duck and Goose, pheasant, grouse, etc. They also kill and eat cotton tail rabbit all of which I enjoy at the table when I can get them. There are not as many quail and cotton tail as there used to be up here where I live anymore because of these protected birds. Along with varmints I think many of these predators should be controlled but ain't gonna happen as many laws are made by people who live in the big cities that have no idea what goes on in remote parts of this great country! Small rural towns get out voted by a large population of people that again ...have know idea about predators or varmints. Like said this is just my opinion having lived in this small town for about 33 years. Closest big city is 100 miles away. The mountain lion is another protected predator that will kill a deer per week and as far as I'm concerned if this cat were to become extinct it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit.

 

[Rem6br]

Heck around where I live free roaming house cats have hurt the rabbit population. Where's catshooter when you need him ;D

 

[rayster]

I really can't see much difference between killing rats and Ground hogs and prairie dogs
There all a varmints,if it made one feel better i guess you could eat the ground hogs

You are very correct the ground hog is one of the largest rodents, closest related to a squirrel. Speaking of which, I bagged a tree rat just this morning with my trusty pellet rifle. :

 

[Ohio Varmint Shooter]

Based on some calculations on my part (yields of certain crops per acreage), an adult male groundhog can eat about $1000 worth of crops per summer. The farmer's fixed costs do not change....so that $1000 comes out of his profit.

Because of the holes, they end up killing livestock. They also can damage farm equipment. Nothing like spending upwards of 5 figures to have a broken axle replaced.

 

[Raythemanroe]

More likely a farmer will plow it under and reseed with something else to rotate the field not to burn it out! The farmer can double the costs if the fields are not yielding as much and lasting as long. The prices for seeding and lime, fertilizer and manpower to fuel costs are only getting more expensive! This is the alternative to destroying your 75- 100k tractor and equipment and animals! I would have a question for the non hunter who opposes the shooting of varmints (over grown ground rats), If they can't be thinned down by managing there numbers through hunting what is a more humane method? I'll finish with a Follow question. Can the non hunter (anti hunter) figure an alternative that creates revenue for local economies while saving money for farmers and keeping food costs down at the same time? The varmint shooter is actually helping all consumers save money!!

 

[Phil3]

More likely a farmer will plow it under and reseed with something else to rotate the field not to burn it out! The farmer can double the costs if the fields are not yielding as much and lasting as long. The prices for seeding and lime, fertilizer and manpower to fuel costs are only getting more expensive! This is the alternative to destroying your 75- 100k tractor and equipment and animals! I would have a question for the non hunter who opposes the shooting of varmints (over grown ground rats), If they can't be thinned down by managing there numbers through hunting what is a more humane method? I'll finish with a Follow question. Can the non hunter (anti hunter) figure an alternative that creates revenue for local economies while saving money for farmers and keeping food costs down at the same time? The varmint shooter is actually helping all consumers save money!!

Please don't say that a "non hunter" is an "anti hunter". I am the former, but not the latter. The question of how to thin raises a much larger issue of what does one value. Relatively undisturbed wildlife with higher food costs and economic pain vs low food costs and economic gain at the expense of some animals. I personally enjoy wildlife but also enjoy good food (from killed animals), a strong local economy, and low food costs. When it comes to thinning, shooting is in my opinion, probably the most practical and cheapest. Poison sounds bad and sterilization appears completely impractical and expensive. I will reiterate, I have nothing against hunters, but hate poachers.

Phil

 

[Raythemanroe]

Hunting is a self sustaining and economically Superior form of animal management. Sterilization through biologically engineered or altered seed or food have side effects I'm not willing to explore to save some rodents! I have a feeling that is were constant wasting disease came from and probably others in deer and elk!! Somethings are not needed if the bleeding hearts can leave well enough be.

 

[rvn1968]

In Connecticut we call them woodchucks,I kill them to stay in practice for deer hunting,a chucks head is about the same size as a deers heart.The farmers that allow me to shoot on their land are also the ones that give me hunting access. A farmer has a lot of money tied up in his cattle,dairy or beef. One broken leg from stepping in a chuck hole takes a sizable chunk out of his annual profits. This is why we must remain on good terms with farmers;a single assh**e that can't tell the difference between a calf and a deer is screwing up a lot of longstanding relationships. Sorry for the longwinded sermon. Tom

 

[langenc]

If one of your non hunting friends had a coyote cut in front of them at McDonalds order line they would understand, maybe.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Same questions get asked about bear hunting, until there towns are getting over run (Quebec Canada) and they can't get rid of them fast enough!

 

[Phil3]

Not to get too far off track, but some people's point is that animal management is needed because humans interfered in the animal ecosystem. The question, which I alluded to before, is simply the balance of benefit for man vs harm to the ecosystem. Wipe out every animal threat to best sustain farm and grazing land, even the food on the table, don't touch it all and let the cattle, alfalfa, and soybean crops suffer, something in between, or...? No right or wrong answer, just opinions. I started the post to find out just what kind of harm the varmints cause. I have gotten good answers, but not unexpectedly, there are plenty of other people claiming harm to livestock, crops, etc., is way overblown. There will never be agreement between those sides. But, I do understand, from the posts here, just what kind of harm these animals can do. I live in an urban development, in a large development that backs to open space. A resident lost a puppy to a coyote and a half eaten dead cat was found in a front yard, apparently due to a coyote. People with house cats they leave outside, have lost them as well.

Phil

 

[Raythemanroe]

I don't think the reintroduction of predator's (wolves, Grizzly's and coyotes) was the best idea for heard management or bringing the ecosystem back to self sustaining population control! I certainly don't think we (humans) are going to stop invading natural animal habitat, unless your for (human) population control. That being said and assuming your not for the latter, it's only a matter of how and not if were going to interfere with the animal ecosystem. Ignoring the facts that are inedible can be more destructive and cruel (disease) to animals then you and I understand..The money hunters bring in for conservations efforts and have payed for more animals to be brought back from endangered lists is enough reason for me to support hunting..

 

[bowfisher]

Not to get too far off track, but some people's point is that animal management is needed because humans interfered in the animal ecosystem. The question, which I alluded to before, is simply the balance of benefit for man vs harm to the ecosystem. Wipe out every animal threat to best sustain farm and grazing land, even the food on the table, don't touch it all and let the cattle, alfalfa, and soybean crops suffer, something in between, or...? No right or wrong answer, just opinions. I started the post to find out just what kind of harm the varmints cause. I have gotten good answers, but not unexpectedly, there are plenty of other people claiming harm to livestock, crops, etc., is way overblown. There will never be agreement between those sides. But, I do understand, from the posts here, just what kind of harm these animals can do. I live in an urban development, in a large development that backs to open space. A resident lost a puppy to a coyote and a half eaten dead cat was found in a front yard, apparently due to a coyote. People with house cats they leave outside, have lost them as well.

Phil

Don't take this personal, but if you haven't lived in the country and tried to make a living there, lived amongst the critters year in and year out, seen reality with your own eyes over the years, you aren't going to get it from a few post on a forum.

One of the biggest problems in this country today is the disconnect that most urban dwellers have. Go be a participant in the game of life and not just a spectator. You will see.

 

[CPorter]

Because humans farm, raise crops & live stock, food for pests is in abundant supply. This causes their numbers to grow beyond what nature alone would usually support. Besides the damage these creatures do there is a danger of disease. Y pestis, tularemia, monkey pox, and so on can breed on large colonies. These colonies house other pests, mice & rats for instance, that move into populated areas and spread these diseases. Keeping colonies small helps keep all that in control.

 

[onelastshot]

A few weeks ago I stopped by one of the local farms. I found the farmer out behind one of the barns tending to a young calf. The calf's hindquarters was covered with maggots. A couple of coyotes had gotten hold of the calf and shredded it's backside but failed to kill it, leaving the farmer with no option but to put it down.

The segment of society that who embrace "the balance of nature", a theory where the wonderful ecosystem maintains its own balance, have no appreciation of what the reality of wildlife is. There is no "balance". The fairytale nature of these Bambie minded fools doesn't exist. Left alone, nature is a pendulum that swings back and forth often in a violent fashion. The population of predators will increase until their food sources are all but wiped out, their populations in turn drop dramatically from starvation. Often times it's disease that creates dramatic population swings. Nature's balance is anything but pretty.

Predators are opportunistic taking advantage of any and all food sources. The high-minded preservationists forget that man and farm animals are part of this system. Compensating a farmer for a lost animal or compromised production doesn't cut it.

Farmers must protect livestock and crops. The easiest method is poison and it's a nasty way to die. Poison also affects and kills other animals and birds that eat the targeted animals and, the poison can and does leach into the soil and crops.

Shooting is far more humane and does not have the secondary effects of poison.

Have your friends do their homework and find out what the farmer's annual agricultural losses in revenue is annually. Groundhogs, deer, coyotes, wolves, crows, etc. Left unchecked, the modest income farmers make is quickly wiped out.

The urban yuppies want organic foods from "happy farms" where animals graze in the open and are taken care of like pets. If their life views became reality, the price of food would be untenable.

 

[Phil3]

I am the OP. Good response and informative. Especially on the balance of nature and the swings it goes through. I want it to be known that these people who ask me are not my "friends". Although one is my sister-in-law. My wife and I like wildlife, but are not against hunting. These are people I run into at times who find out I shoot guns and then assume I hunt, or criticize hunting. Since I know little about varmint hunting, I asked here.

I know people who buy beef from the "happy" places and you're right, it is expensive, but their call. Not for me, I get my beef at Costco when possible and I doubt that cow came from a happy farm.

Phil

 

[drgunlimited]

like I always tell the wife... it was him or me...
ever seen a pdog up close... ferocious creature.....

 

[roninflag]

Phil- you have not said where you are . each area/state is different. coyotes are native to arizona. arizona human population is growing. it is growing into areas where coyotes are. coyotes are very smart . they eat people"s pets, cats , poodles, chickens . i like it, the coyotes are hungry. the people who lose their pets usually don't like it. i can show you a video of my son-inlaw calling in 5 coyotes in east phoenix. an abnormally large prey base..... lot of coyotes for the desert they inhabit. arizona is an arid state ; out in the wilderness coyotes do affect the numbers of quail , deer , rabbits ect.