How Are Varmints & Coyotes Harmful? Benefit of Shooting?
- Thread starter Phil3
- Start date
My profile says I am in San Ramon, CA, which is in the San Francisco bay area. Pretty much 25+ miles due east of San Francisco as the crow flies. In my area, it can get fairly hot (103 max for a minority of days), has rolling hills in places, with lots of trees. Animals are plentiful, including deer, skunks, raccoons, and more rarely foxes and hardly any coyotes (that I have seen). Brown colored squirrels are everywhere, and turkey vultures are quite common. Wild turkeys are quite common as well, walking down the street, not moving for any cars. Plenty of open space around our development, and we know coyotes have killed one puppy and eaten a cat. Wild pigs are known to be on nearby Mt. Diablo, which tear up people's lawns looking for grubs I guess.
I figure coyotes take the path of least resistance, preying on anything that is easiest to get to, and I have no sympathy for people leaving their cats or small pets unattended outside that are then victims of a coyote and then complain about the loss. I have only seen a coyote twice in my life, neither time around here, nor have I heard any. There seems to be plenty of food around though. We deer roadkill hit all the time on one nearby road, and is also where I have seen several foxes in my 15+ years here. One gave me the stare-down right in our development.
A coyote attack on a human is scary and had know it happens. Does that happen in a pack, or just a single coyote?
Phil
I figure coyotes take the path of least resistance, preying on anything that is easiest to get to, and I have no sympathy for people leaving their cats or small pets unattended outside that are then victims of a coyote and then complain about the loss. I have only seen a coyote twice in my life, neither time around here, nor have I heard any. There seems to be plenty of food around though. We deer roadkill hit all the time on one nearby road, and is also where I have seen several foxes in my 15+ years here. One gave me the stare-down right in our development.
A coyote attack on a human is scary and had know it happens. Does that happen in a pack, or just a single coyote?
Phil
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Interesting, I have heard tails of close encounters and personally had them follow me out! If you want to see the elusive coyote you need to watch fields at dusk and dawn.. There diet is mostly mice and rodents along with rabbits..Set up a game camera by a sluice pipe in a area with plenty of there food or set up on one of those deer carcasses and you will see how many you actually have!
PS chain the carcass or you won't get much footage!!
PS chain the carcass or you won't get much footage!!
The road where I commonly see roadkill is fairly busy, but not at night. And yet the dead animals on the side of the road often stay there, mostly rotting away. Sometimes I notice they disappear but the road goes into another county, which seems more content to leave the animals. I see deer most often, and most of those decay pretty badly before eventually disappearing. Some might disappear more quickly, but just have not been watching enough to know. Still, plenty of fresh roadkill out there that is not being eaten.
Phil
Phil
There are people that think that whole problem is mankinds interference with the natural ebb and flow of nature.The best example of those idiots was a gentleman named Cleveand Armory.I apologize for my misspellings.Many years back there was an island,I think in Florida.that was extremely overpopulated with deer,to the point of starvation.Now everyone knows that deer are strong swimmers but this particular year, there was an awfully strong spring runoff.The local hunters petitioned the Governor to allow hunting for that year,but,Mr.Armory used his influence through TV Guide to stop all hunting.Well the water rose and the deer were washed to sea.The lucky ones were shark food,the rest drowned at sea.You just got to love those misinformed treehuggers.
When asked about why would someone go varmint hunting?, I give the same answer as why one would want to shoot full-auto machine guns. I first ask them:
"Have you tried it?" They always say "No" (otherwise they would not be asking). I then say, "Well, you should go with me sometime and try it, otherwise, there is no point in my attempting to explain it to you."
If they are adventurous enough to actually go with me and experience hunting varmints (or shooting MG's), they always go home a changed man/woman. Until you hear that "Thump" of a good solid hit on a ground hog or a big fat prairie dog or until you watch as you call a yote into range knowing that he is hunting you too, you cannot know what you are missing and putting it into words for the ignorant to comprehend is nearly impossible. Nuf Said.
Irish
"Have you tried it?" They always say "No" (otherwise they would not be asking). I then say, "Well, you should go with me sometime and try it, otherwise, there is no point in my attempting to explain it to you."
If they are adventurous enough to actually go with me and experience hunting varmints (or shooting MG's), they always go home a changed man/woman. Until you hear that "Thump" of a good solid hit on a ground hog or a big fat prairie dog or until you watch as you call a yote into range knowing that he is hunting you too, you cannot know what you are missing and putting it into words for the ignorant to comprehend is nearly impossible. Nuf Said.
Irish
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
People who've never been out there have no idea. The farms/ranches where I shoot, owners want varmints gone.
Rockchucks.......around the edge of a beautiful alfalfa field there'll be a brown chewed down swath. You can see where the chucks have eaten it down to nothing. Those things are voracious little lawnmowers and farmers want them gone.
Groundsquirrels.......graze is nutrient rich, especially alfalfa. It makes the gophers fertile and they reproduce like crazy. If any critic of varmint shooting ever saw a field with maybe 1,000 groundsquirrels and their holes in a football field sized area, they'd just say "holy crap." Farmers want them gone. Trouble is, in California it's illegal to use poison.
Prairie Dogs.....programs on NatGeo that claim pd's are why prairie grasslands are healthy? That's crap. They eat a lot of grass. They'll be in healthy prairie grazing land because they eat the same stuff that cattle eat. But they don't cause the grass to be healthy. But they will cover an area with mounds, like scabs on an otherwise beautiful grazing area. You'll also see them in areas so barren of anything green you wonder how they survive.....so much for the claim that they're why prairie grass is fertile. Years ago I shot pds on an enormous cattle. The foreman told me there were 13 cowboys out that year with injuries.....in the middle of a cattle herd, horse steps in pd hole, falls, cowboy lands hard and breaks arm or disclocates/breaks shoulder. Or worse. Urbanites who've never been where prairie dogs are think they're cute. People who have them on their ranchland don't want them.
Coyotes......killers. Very destructive to deer herds. Sheep ranchers don't like them. Not healthy for any outdoor pet. But it's poetic justice when urban conservationist/anti-hunter types lose Fluffy the dog or cat, to a hungry coyote. They change their tune.
Porcupines.....you wouldn't guess how much damage they'll do to a stand of trees. Cattle ranchers don't like what happens when they get in with cows. And most every farm dog has had problems with a porcupine. I shoot them on sight.
Badgers......pests, dig huge holes in places where farmers already have enough problems.
Magpies.......Ranchers will tell you about those things trying to peck the eyes from a newborn calf.
I could go on and on but you get the idea. There's a reality out there that city people have never seen and are oblivious to. The antis simply don't know. My own motivation is that I really enjoy shooting these things, and it's nice the landowner wants them dead.
Rockchucks.......around the edge of a beautiful alfalfa field there'll be a brown chewed down swath. You can see where the chucks have eaten it down to nothing. Those things are voracious little lawnmowers and farmers want them gone.
Groundsquirrels.......graze is nutrient rich, especially alfalfa. It makes the gophers fertile and they reproduce like crazy. If any critic of varmint shooting ever saw a field with maybe 1,000 groundsquirrels and their holes in a football field sized area, they'd just say "holy crap." Farmers want them gone. Trouble is, in California it's illegal to use poison.
Prairie Dogs.....programs on NatGeo that claim pd's are why prairie grasslands are healthy? That's crap. They eat a lot of grass. They'll be in healthy prairie grazing land because they eat the same stuff that cattle eat. But they don't cause the grass to be healthy. But they will cover an area with mounds, like scabs on an otherwise beautiful grazing area. You'll also see them in areas so barren of anything green you wonder how they survive.....so much for the claim that they're why prairie grass is fertile. Years ago I shot pds on an enormous cattle. The foreman told me there were 13 cowboys out that year with injuries.....in the middle of a cattle herd, horse steps in pd hole, falls, cowboy lands hard and breaks arm or disclocates/breaks shoulder. Or worse. Urbanites who've never been where prairie dogs are think they're cute. People who have them on their ranchland don't want them.
Coyotes......killers. Very destructive to deer herds. Sheep ranchers don't like them. Not healthy for any outdoor pet. But it's poetic justice when urban conservationist/anti-hunter types lose Fluffy the dog or cat, to a hungry coyote. They change their tune.
Porcupines.....you wouldn't guess how much damage they'll do to a stand of trees. Cattle ranchers don't like what happens when they get in with cows. And most every farm dog has had problems with a porcupine. I shoot them on sight.
Badgers......pests, dig huge holes in places where farmers already have enough problems.
Magpies.......Ranchers will tell you about those things trying to peck the eyes from a newborn calf.
I could go on and on but you get the idea. There's a reality out there that city people have never seen and are oblivious to. The antis simply don't know. My own motivation is that I really enjoy shooting these things, and it's nice the landowner wants them dead.
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
And those sanctimonious folks who love to talk about how awful mankind is for cutting down trees and encroaching on animal habitat with houses and such. Like my fool stepbrother who's a strict vegetarian on animal cruelty grounds but wears leather shoes and his mercedes has leather seats...........these hypocrite treehugger people live in houses of wood. Talking the talk makes them feel good, but I've never ever heard of one tearing his house down so the land could revert back to natural.
Phil3 quoting you-
"After reading the title, I want to be very clear that I am not some animal rights activist and have nothing against hunting, or killing varmints, even if I am not a hunter. What I do want to know (because I am asked by some), is why kill these prairie dogs, squirrel, and coyotes, especially if the corpses are just left (which I understand to be the case). I surely don't want to say people shoot and kill thousands of varmints for "fun", with no other purpose. That sounds just cruel and sick. "
Bill White:
Phil3, I have quoted you. If you think it sounds cruel & sick, why proffer...nothing. So you are "not some animal rights activist...
who thinks people shoot and kill thousands of varmints for "fun", but it seems "just cruel and sick".
Am I quoting you correctly, in context?
Edited for brevity and clarity: "Not an animal rights activist, who thinks people who shoot and kill thousands of varmints for fun, that sounds just cruel & sick". huh?
"After reading the title, I want to be very clear that I am not some animal rights activist and have nothing against hunting, or killing varmints, even if I am not a hunter. What I do want to know (because I am asked by some), is why kill these prairie dogs, squirrel, and coyotes, especially if the corpses are just left (which I understand to be the case). I surely don't want to say people shoot and kill thousands of varmints for "fun", with no other purpose. That sounds just cruel and sick. "
Bill White:
Phil3, I have quoted you. If you think it sounds cruel & sick, why proffer...nothing. So you are "not some animal rights activist...
who thinks people shoot and kill thousands of varmints for "fun", but it seems "just cruel and sick".
Am I quoting you correctly, in context?
Edited for brevity and clarity: "Not an animal rights activist, who thinks people who shoot and kill thousands of varmints for fun, that sounds just cruel & sick". huh?
CTshooter said:
The crux of your question is how can I say that I am not an animal rights activist if I feel that people who kills thousands of varmints for fun, is cruel and sick. If this is not the crux of your question, then please advise.
I said in my OP,
“I surely don't want to say people shoot and kill thousands of varmints for "fun", with no other purpose. That sounds just cruel and sickâ€.
And it would sound cruel and sick…to the people who ask me about hunting varmints. I don’t want to go back to these people, and say, “ya know, I asked the hunters about shooting varmints, and say they do it for only one reason, funâ€. I figured there had to more to it than that, and all the responses here make it amply clear there are many reasons to eradicate the varmints. I have used that info already to explain the hunting to some animal-rights types. With the info learned here, I was in a better position to explain the hunting, and the benefit.
Personally, for me, I would not derive any personal enjoyment out of watching an animal die from my gun, solely for fun. I wouldn’t understand such behavior and would not participate in it. But, I would not actively oppose it. I have not seen in this thread, one post, where someone said they fired away at the varmints just for fun with no appreciation for the tangible benefit being realized. This speaks well for hunters in my opinion. In the case of varmints, there are plenty of tangible benefits when shooting the the varmint. Heck, as I understand it, if not done, in some places, they will be poisoned anyway.
Phil
Ackman said:
This is a good rundown of the animals that can cause harm and trouble. I did not know about some of these. How do you guys feel about raccoons and skunks? They are plentiful around here, but don't know if they cause any harm. We are pretty sure a coyote was responsible for a half eaten cat and one missing puppy in our development. We are mostly surrounded by open space.
Phil
Made my day!My sentiments are the same as Ackman's and as for the question of Raccoon's and Skunks? Raccoons and Skunks are responsible for their fair share of mayhem. Where I live the annual loss of sweet, and tart, cherry crops is tremendous due to Raccoons climbing in trees and eating said fruit along with breaking limbs already heavy with fruit. Raccoons also terrorize the boundaries of corn, field and sweet, breaking down stalks and eating the ears! Skunks are just terror on pets. If you have ever had a dog sprayed by a skunk you know what I'm talking about!
Mike
Mike
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
Phil3 said:
Skunks and raccoons.......I've been wakened countless times by the smell of skunk. Every skunk I see dies if it's in a place that's ok to shoot. It's vengeance. Raccoons are bothersome......a couple neighbors lost all their chickens and ducks - about 20 in all - to raccoons. I heard each one screaming in the early hours while a raccoon ripped it's head off. Also I've chased raccoons across the yard while they dragged a trash bag from the can. So I don't much care for them either.
Varmint hunting comes in different shades. Varmint shooting - as opposed to varmint hunting - basically is killing and you need to realize that people who shoot varmints enjoy doing it. It's not for everyone so if a person doesn't like killing an animal for enjoyment that's fine, don't do it. I really enjoy blasting those things, seeing them explode or turn into a gutpile. Fireworks - pieces flying - are what's fun. Varmints are wherever they are. By nice happenstance, lots of quality/quantity shooting is often in places where a landowner wants them dead (that's why they're called varmints). It's a win-win thing for both shooter and landowner. So many urbanites who live in cities are oblivious to this.
Interesting perspective here. You enjoy killing varmints. Got that, but could I ask do you killing animals, or do you enjoy killing undesirable animals? I am not trying to say there is a right or wrong, just trying to understand the mindset. For instance, in one neighborhood development we lived in, pigeons were trying to make nests on our roof where roof lines intersected providing shelter. They cooed constantly, and were making a poopy mess on the roof. To me, they were a flying rat and know they can carry disease. They flew in a flock and wanted to use a shotgun blast to take them all out at once. I did take out one with an air rifle. Unlike you, I didn't particularly care doing that, but on the other hand, was losing my patience with the things would have used the shotgun if I had one, and could have gotten away with it. I now recall also shooting a gopher in the head that was wreaking havoc in my parent's front lawn. Again, not my thing to do, but did do it.
Thinking back on my pigeon and gopher experience, I have a better idea of the driving force behind shooting some of these things. But I would never be like those guys in the old west shooting buffalo just for the fun of it, or something along those lines. I guess I need to have a practical reason to shoot the animal (varmint), which appears virtually everyone has (they are varmints).
Phil
Thinking back on my pigeon and gopher experience, I have a better idea of the driving force behind shooting some of these things. But I would never be like those guys in the old west shooting buffalo just for the fun of it, or something along those lines. I guess I need to have a practical reason to shoot the animal (varmint), which appears virtually everyone has (they are varmints).
Phil
CatShooter
Phil3 said:
Those guys in the old west didn't shoot them for fun, it was their living. They were paid $1 each for the hides - which was a fortune in those days.
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