Just got around to testing 88 gr ELDM in my Savage Model 12 with a 22-250 Ackley Improved 7.5 twist Criterion barrel at 300 yards. Was very impressed with initial results. Appears the 7.5 twist is stabilized fine. 39.0 gr RL 23 88 gr ELDM Fed 210 M at 3098 fps ES 21. 0.525” or 0.17 MOA. Dime in photo for reference.
Hornady 88 ELD
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urbanrifleman
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What is your freebore?
I will have to check, don’t remember right off but Criterion throated it for a perfect match for a 80 gr a max. Probably for the bearing surface of the AMAX 0.200-0.030” above the shoulder neck junction. The 88 gr ELDM is definitely sitting further down into the “powder column”
urbanrifleman
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Yah, those two are radically different lengths.
Very nice! Just wondering if you have shot any coyotes with this bullet, and if so, what were the results. Good expansion?
Thanks, Paul
Have not shot anything but paper so far. 75 gr AMAX performed great on coyotes in my 22-250 but was wondering if the ELDMs were similar also. May put my D 760 scope on it soon and try the 88’s out on some yotes in the dark this winter. Will definitely shoot flatter than my 6mm AR Turbo 40 going 2800 fps with the 105 gr amax that I’m currently using!
For what it is worth, I shoot Palma with a group of other Palma shooters in Oregon and the 88s and have never felt the need for more than 2780fps using Varget or Precision. Brass last's much longer as well. My SDs from our Shot Marker system are in the 1500-1600 range at the 1000yd. target and grouping works as well as the wind will allow. I was using CCI 450s but dropped down to standard SRPs with no negative effects.
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
Wow.... um.... Standard Deviation of 1500fps... LOL I am guessing you mean to say Impact Velocity at 1000yds. Your as bad as i am getting number all jumbled around. At least i am not the only one. LOL
Oddly enough my 88's are leaving the muzzle at 2820fps verified by a lab radar and impact velocity of mid 1400fps. according to the Shot marker targets data.
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Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
Same here Russ. 2800 MV and 1380-1400 at 1000 for the 88’s. 600 ‘ elevation.
I am 1500 ish at 900.
IV HAVE SHOT F CLASS FOR 10
+YEARS WITH 223,HAVE USED 3 BARREL MAKERS, BUT THE 4 GROVE,1/7 TWIST BARLIEN THE THE BEST
My 26" 7.5 twist 5r Bartlien shoots the 88s no problem.
paperpuncher
Gold $$ Contributor
So just to add clarity to my post when I said less than ideal I was referring to the .218” /.224” config and the potential to damage jackets I have shot this barrel configuration extensively with 88 hornadays and 90vld bergers in a Bartlien and a Brux without any issues at all. Both barrels performed very well
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Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Barrel length is also a critical factor with respect to jacket failure issues. These issues [potentially] become more of a problem when the barrel length reaches ~30", give or take an inch or two. Barrels in the 24"-26" range (or less) don't seem to suffer the same potential for jacket failures, which is not surprising because it is largely driven by friction. I have never lost a bullet jacket in a 0.218"/0.224" bore/groove configuration that had a twist rate of 7.0. It was only when I went to a twist rate of 6.8 in the same bore/groove configuration that the problem surfaced. The evidence suggests that multiple factors including bore/groove configuration, barrel length, twist rate, and bullet velocity can all potentially contribute to jacket failure, and is likely to be a combination of two or more factors acting together until a critical jacket failure point has been reached. As long as the bullets aren't losing jackets; i.e. multiple factors together creating stresses that are too much for the bullet jacket, a 0.218"/0.224" bore can work just fine. As I mentioned, I shot 90 VLDs out of 0.218"/0.224" 7-twist barrels for years without a single jacket failure. Hopefully, your 0.218"/0/224" barrels won't ever give you any problems.
Something interesting occurred to me in just the last couple days regarding bore/groove configuration, jacket failures, and brass life/pressure. I have a couple new 0.219"/0.224", 6.7-twist barrels I have been testing with heavies. What I am seeing is that overall pressure seems to be lower at a given velocity with the 0.219" bore barrels. I have been able to run bullets at velocities in these 6.7 twist barrels that I know with certainty would have caused jacket failures from a 0.218" bore. So, the 0.219" bore barrels are doing what they are supposed to with respect to jacket failures. However, I have also observed that the peak pressure at a given velocity also seems to be lower in the 0.219" bore barrels. I believe that some of the charge weights I have been able to test at the high end in 0.219" bore barrels without any issues whatsoever would have almost certainly resulted in blown primers in my previous 0.218" bore barrels.
That begs the question, is peak pressure markedly lower in a 0.219" bore barrel? Certainly it would make sense that it should be. The bullet engravement force would undoubtedly be lower in a 0.219" versus 0.218" bore, thereby suggesting a lower start/initiation pressure, which would also translate to lower peak pressure. One of the issues I had in the past when running the 90 VLDs at ~2850 fps in 0.218" bore barrels was extremely poor brass life. The pressures predicted for those loads by QuickLoad were over SAAMI MAX for .223 Rem, so the poor brass life wasn't unexpected, just painful every time I had to buy a new case of Lapua .223 Rem brass. I suspect from my results with the 0.219" bore barrels that I could run the 90 VLDs at 2850 fps from a 0.219" bore barrel and achieve much better brass life, in addition to mitigating potential jacket failures. So it may well be that using the 0.219" bore has a beneficial effect on brass life as well as bullet jackets. In any event, as the remaining 0.218" barrels I own become worn out, they will eventually all be replaced with 0.219" bore barrels, but as they are all 7.0-twist and don't seem to cause any jacket failures, I will happily continue using them until they need to be replaced.
Stumpy1
Gold $$ Contributor
Warning -weird follow-on question coming up...
If one has a 0.218 bore barrel that is having issues with jacket failure, what do you think would be the result of running a few Tubb 'final finish' bullets down the bore?
Based on doing that some years ago with a factory Savage barrel, they sure smoothed out both bore and groove, and they didn't do that without removing some material.
So, based on that, I wonder if it would open up the bore of a 0.218, as well as smooth any rough edges.
Might be worth a shot, so to speak.
Frank
If one has a 0.218 bore barrel that is having issues with jacket failure, what do you think would be the result of running a few Tubb 'final finish' bullets down the bore?
Based on doing that some years ago with a factory Savage barrel, they sure smoothed out both bore and groove, and they didn't do that without removing some material.
So, based on that, I wonder if it would open up the bore of a 0.218, as well as smooth any rough edges.
Might be worth a shot, so to speak.
Frank
urbanrifleman
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Truly couldn't hurt. Shoot them really slow.
DR_2297
Silver $$ Contributor
My current 223 barrel is a Bartlein .218/.224 6.8T 5R finished @ 32”. Manson T15 FB chamber. I haven’t lost a single 90VLD @ 2870 MV (600 down range so far). 1k performance is Ok. I have my good days and my bad days. Have not fired any 88ELD - yet. Until I can determine if it is the tune or it is me I am probably going to keep this as a mid range rifle firing 80.5s. The 308 just always seems to be easier to fire good scores with even with the additional recoil.
Are you still shooting this combination?
What powder are you using? I have a 8twist 30” barrel going 22creed
Settled on the best accuracy. 80 ELDM at 3550 with RL26.
Do you think the 8twist was robbing the BC of the 88’s?
Or just the 80’s shot better?
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