Historical Benchrest question

[SteveOak]

Prior to the introduction of the 6PPC in the 70's the 222 Remington and 219 Donaldson Wasp seem to have been the predominant cartridges for competition Benchrest.

If there were others, please post them. I'm not looking for a laundry list of everything that was used for competitive Benchrest pre 6PPC, just for the best of the field so that I can make a comparison to the 6PPC. What did it beat out when it arrived?

Early 6PPC load data, powder and bullet weights and muzzle velocities would be helpful too. Did they start out with 65 to 68gr bullets or did that come later.

I searched for load data for the 222 Rem. It looks like loads of 22 to 25 grains of powder and a 50 to 55gr bullet were common. The typical muzzle velocity was 3,200 to 3,300 fps.

The data I am finding for the 219 DW is more powder, 28 to 30 grains or so but still the 50 to 55gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of 3,500 to 3,600 fps.

If this information is valid, it is sufficient for my investigation.

Factual historical data would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[KMart]

This will give you a lot of the benchrest info. Some were shooting .308's

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?93774-Benchrest-History-Thread

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

iirc, the 222 had pretty much supplanted the Wasp by the early 1960's. Sporter Class was mostly the 6x47, the 222 Mag necked up to 6mm.

NORMA brass has been considered "soft", and during the 1980's shooters would be happy to get a yardage agg out of a set of 6PPC cases. A few shooters made 6PPC rimmed from 220 Swift brass during the shortage using a 308 bolt. In 1986 a NE gunsmith named Seeley Masker came up with the idea of a 6mm Seeley Masker Wasp using 30-30 brass. It worked well enough that he and Dave Tooley and a few others convinced Federal to make a run of 30-30 match grade brass. It had a small primer pocket, and was called the 30 American. It was so competitive that NORMA was forced to upgrade the quality of the PPC brass, and make enough to satisfy the demand here. The short range BR guys had four classes. Light Varmint was 10.5 lbs, Heavy was 13.5lbs, Sporter was basically LV but 6mm or larger caliber, and Unlimited. That evolved in to two basic rifles; the 18-20lb Cruiser weight, and the railgun. Shooters found out that the 6PPC was a bit more accurate than the 22 caliber version, and use it pretty much universally in LV, Sporter, and HV. Unlimited guns also use it.

 

[xswanted]

My dad shot in the 70s.

222 and then the 6x47

Wind lots of matches at Elk River over the years there. He still has some of the 200 yard targets from the 6x47. Small groups for sure!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

my antique BR rifles from the 80's and before are chambered in 222mag.
as for the ppc brass shortage- when that happened we used 7.62x39 brass to form ppc cases. youd go thru 1000 cases to get a good set of 20 for a match. sako brass was pretty much unusable and norma wasnt much better. around this time is when the taldog made its entrance using rem br basic brass.

 

[joshb]

my antique BR rifles from the 80's and before are chambered in 222mag.
as for the ppc brass shortage- when that happened we used 7.62x39 brass to form ppc cases. youd go thru 1000 cases to get a good set of 20 for a match. sako brass was pretty much unusable and norma wasnt much better. around this time is when the taldog made its entrance using rem br basic brass.

Now that's funny! Referring to the 80's guns as "antique". I was made in the 50's. I feel a little old but certainly not antique!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Now that's funny! Referring to the 80's guns as "antique". I was made in the 50's. I feel a little old but certainly not antique!

50's to the 80's not much changed except custom actions and fiberglass stocks.

 

[butchlambert]

Well the 22-30 and 22-45 were popular. Red Cornelison shot his self into being the First member of the BR Hall of Fame with his 22 Red Russian. It was a shortened BR case with the rim rebated to 222 size and a machine step in the neck for the bullet to sit on. I stll have some of his brass.

 

[Ggmac]

22-250 in the 50s it wasn't standardized mostly a New Jersey , Long Island crowd .

 

[Ggmac]

my antique BR rifles from the 80's and before are chambered in 222mag.
as for the ppc brass shortage- when that happened we used 7.62x39 brass to form ppc cases. youd go thru 1000 cases to get a good set of 20 for a match. sako brass was pretty much unusable and norma wasnt much better. around this time is when the taldog made its entrance using rem br basic brass.

I guess all my BR rigs are antiques, heck even my Williamsport guns are . Dang I'm feeling even older now .

 

[ireload2]

I have a couple of antiques.
Both are fiberglass stocked 40X BR rifles in 6X47 that were barrelled by TJ Jackson.

 

[joshb]

I guess all my BR rigs are antiques, heck even my Williamsport guns are . Dang I'm feeling even older now .

Well, Gary. I guess we should hang it up and find a nice old folks home. Guess these youngsters are going to take over.

 

[Outrider27]

A cartridge that hasn't been mentioned, from when I shot hunter class, tagging along with a buddy who shot serious light varmint class in the mid 70s, was a wildcat called the .223-35. It was fire formed from .223 cases to get the 35 degree shoulder angle. The late Homer Culver was kind enough to explain its origins to me; out of the dozen to twenty competitors at these matches, two that I remember were .223-35s, most of the rest .222s, and Homer's .219 Donaldson Wasp.

 

[jamesdmock]

Here is a scanned equipment list from PS Magazine for the 1965 Nationals. The second picture is from 1958.I hope that this is readable. James

 

[jamesdmock]

50's to the 80's not much changed except custom actions and fiberglass stocks.

Dusty, George Kelbly told me that he thought the BIGGEST change was the widespread use of wind flags. James

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

It would be interesting to see a Bench Rest Match shot these days without wind flags.

 

[butchlambert]

It would be interesting to see a Bench Rest Match shot these days without wind flags.

Yeah, with our Daiseys and a 20MPH wind. Chuckle chuckle

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty, George Kelbly told me that he thought the BIGGEST change was the widespread use of wind flags. James

I agree with that too.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

It would be interesting to see a Bench Rest Match shot these days without wind flags.

It would be like the bottom half of the results page from any match

 

[TheOtherZilla]

I have to ask. What is a 222½??