Help me pick my next cartridge - 25cal

[SweaterDood]

Sweet looking rig, post the load dev process when you get to that stage.

I’ve found a somewhat consistent load around 2760fps to shoot until the barrel speeds up. Unfortunately my scope is headed back to the manufacturer for a refund, so I wasn’t able to assess group size. I can tell you that the POI for all 20 shots (10ea of 4451 / H4350) in the initial ladder test went into roughly 0.6” at 100yds. I do load separate fouler/bore warming shots before starting any testing, so I can treat all loads equally.

Since the ultimate goal is only 2840ish fps with the Berger 135s, I’m very confident at this stage. I think I’m going to cut down my QPC barrel to 23” and rechamber to 25x47L as well. That would give me an indication of fps/inch change. Then I’ll probably do a 300WSM on that rifle... Somebody change my mind...

 

[darkangel_r2]

I’ve found a somewhat consistent load around 2760fps to shoot until the barrel speeds up. Unfortunately my scope is headed back to the manufacturer for a refund, so I wasn’t able to assess group size. I can tell you that the POI for all 20 shots (10ea of 4451 / H4350) in the initial ladder test went into roughly 0.6” at 100yds. I do load separate fouler/bore warming shots before starting any testing, so I can treat all loads equally.

Nice, how much jump are you putting on the 135?

 

[std7mag]

H100V in the AI is not temp stable at all in my experience. Shot my very first match with it. Using a load 2gr below my accepted “max” where a good node was (SD = 7fps). Had over 100fps swing from 26* in the morning to almost 80* in the afternoon. I thought a terrible carbon ring had generated, but it was no trouble to clean out the throat so I don’t think so.

I think my case capacity is just too much for the H100V. Optimal burn rate is closer to N165, H4831, RL23, Norma MRP, etc.

Yeah, i've run some numbers in Quickload. Seems to like the Norma MRP also.

Now to play with the newest toy.
Picked up a Browning A Bolt synthetic in 25 WSSM.
Cases & Lee case length gauge came today. Dies due on the 22nd.

 

[SweaterDood]

Nice, how much jump are you putting on the 135?

Slight Jam. I do all of my initial pressure testing there. I can eject a live round without sticking a bullet, though. Will probably leave the seating there until the barrel speeds up. Or if I do have my QPC barrel cut down and rechambered, I’ll do a quick pressure test and play with seating on that barrel. Then use that depth as a starting point.

 

[No manches"]

It's been really hard for me to find any h4350.
But seems your on the right track.
My rifle is going back to the smith this weekend.
Will lengthen the throat by 0.025

 

[SweaterDood]

Yeah, i've run some numbers in Quickload. Seems to like the Norma MRP also.

Now to play with the newest toy.
Picked up a Browning A Bolt synthetic in 25 WSSM.
Cases & Lee case length gauge came today. Dies due on the 22nd.

Should be a screamer

 

[SweaterDood]

Finally finished fireforming my first box of brass today. Went back with my identified load of IMR 4451 that settled nicely around 2760fps on the previous outing.

For some reason the Mosquitospeed wasn’t picking up shots today, so I decided to see how close the “adjust speed to 600, and BC after that” philosophy would hold up. Long story short, it seems to be spot on. All I had to do was true out the speed on my 600yd impacts, confirmed to the 0.05mil at 750 & 1000. Moved to 1250 for 5 shots, and put them all on an IPSC at a PRS match pace (10sec/shot). Under those conditions I’m pretty darn happy with a 1.25moa group.

Loads were not meticulous, just punched the charge into the chargemaster and dump. Brass was previously prepped and primed so just powder & seating today. Again, just looking to fireform at a decent low node for the brass and barrel to settle.

Was also curious to see if the barrel would speed up at all, today. Nope. Probably another 50-100rds. I will try to rechamber the brass tomorrow, and neck size only, if the bolt handle falls. Give it one more firing to fill the chamber before going to FL sizing. I am also very interested in picking up a box or 2 of the new Alpha 6.5x47L OCD brass. Not that I’m unhappy with the blue box offerings, but I’m like a barracuda around shiny things sometimes.

 

[No manches"]

Finally finished fireforming my first box of brass today. Went back with my identified load of IMR 4451 that settled nicely around 2760fps on the previous outing.

For some reason the Mosquitospeed wasn’t picking up shots today, so I decided to see how close the “adjust speed to 600, and BC after that” philosophy would hold up. Long story short, it seems to be spot on. All I had to do was true out the speed on my 600yd impacts, confirmed to the 0.05mil at 750 & 1000. Moved to 1250 for 5 shots, and put them all on an IPSC at a PRS match pace (10sec/shot). Under those conditions I’m pretty darn happy with a 1.25moa group.

Loads were not meticulous, just punched the charge into the chargemaster and dump. Brass was previously prepped and primed so just powder & seating today. Again, just looking to fireform at a decent low node for the brass and barrel to settle.

Was also curious to see if the barrel would speed up at all, today. Nope. Probably another 50-100rds. I will try to rechamber the brass tomorrow, and neck size only, if the bolt handle falls. Give it one more firing to fill the chamber before going to FL sizing. I am also very interested in picking up a box or 2 of the new Alpha 6.5x47L OCD brass. Not that I’m unhappy with the blue box offerings, but I’m like a barracuda around shiny things sometimes.

I like it!

 

[darkangel_r2]

Finally finished fireforming my first box of brass today. Went back with my identified load of IMR 4451 that settled nicely around 2760fps on the previous outing.

How hot were you able to run it?

Was also curious to see if the barrel would speed up at all, today. Nope. Probably another 50-100rds. I will try to rechamber the brass tomorrow, and neck size only, if the bolt handle falls. Give it one more firing to fill the chamber before going to FL sizing. I am also very interested in picking up a box or 2 of the new Alpha 6.5x47L OCD brass. Not that I’m unhappy with the blue box offerings, but I’m like a barracuda around shiny things sometimes.

Brass will actually lengthen faster in a full length die. Shoulder moves forward by sqeezing the sides. Start with the die far out and progressively thread it in. It will grow in length until the brass shoulder hits the die shoulder. Then it will start to shrink again. Once the brass base to shoulder length starts to shrink again check that brass in your chamber. If it fits cleanly that's the longest you can possibly make the brass on that firing cycle. So do the same procedure on the next cycle.

When it doesn't fit just continue to thread the die down until the brass just barely closes in your chamber without resistance. Lock the die down at that setting and your good to go. You now have minimum headspace in your chamber for your brass to feed properly and be worked the least and your brass has all of its external dimensions sized at the same time for max concentricity and dimensional consistency.

 

[SweaterDood]

I haven’t tried to run it hot yet (2830, maybe). Trying to harden the case heads a little bit first. 4451 does seem a little bulky though. At 39.0gr, I have a slight crunch with the 131 Ace XL bullet which is notably longer than the regular 131 and 135 Berger. I don’t remember H4350 compressing up to 40.0gr, but I didn’t go past that yet. I think most guys are loading around 41-41.5gr, so once the barrel settles I will explore that range.

Setting the die headspace after 1 firing can cause overworking of the brass. My experience has been that 1 firing will not completely fireform to the chamber. I like to go 2 firings and measure back .002” after that. I use the FL die to size about 1/2-2/3 of the neck on virgin and once fired brass. The die won’t change the body dimension this way.

Concentricity, speed, tune, etc. aren’t super important to me while the barrel is still settling in. I want enough accuracy to validate bullet data, since the rest of the recipe will change after the 2nd loading.

 

[284winner]

Update on my 25-284. Shot the 131 Blackjacks and 133/135 Berger's. All shoot inside of each other accuracy wise. Going with the 131 BJs for the time being. Mostly because I only have 1000 left and will not be able to acquire anymore in the future. Berger will be my future bullet for this rifle. Chrono'd my loads at an average velocity of 3189 with only 3 shots. The group was one hole. It's only a 24" barrel and I figured I'd be handicapped by that but doesn't look like I am. Very happy at this point but much work left to do. 100-1200 yard drop data next

 

[Gb300wm]

Here’s a 270 wsm necked down to 25 cal. 115 berger
First 3 in the target and next two on the clock.
Really hammers deer….
Not much mention here of this round, but it’s extremely accurate and fast.
Round next to a 6.5 cm with 147 hor

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Here’s a 270 wsm necked down to 25 cal. 115 berger
First 3 in the target and next two on the clock.
Really hammers deer….
Not much mention here of this round, but it’s extremely accurate and fast.
Round next to a 6.5 cm with 147 hor

great shooting, any updates or longer term opinion?

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Seems like a good idea!, after I got It to shoot really good at 100 and 200 yards with IMR4155
Pushed the rifle to the outer limits of my local range and noticed bullet tumbling at the 505 yards target board.
So after I seen that i just went back to 90's and have a ridiculous accurate load. So i just kept It there.
Then i had a new at the time marlin x7 SA 22-250 i had purchased here locally at the time marlin sold to Remington so i got it dirt cheap.
And decided to make my first 250 savage Ackley case. I called ken Clemens at Brux..and we talked for a good minute. ( by the way I recommend BRUX barrels) very knowledgeable guy and very willing to help.
He was the one that recommended the 8.5 twist.
So I went ahead and had my Smith put together the 250 Ackley. As time went on to be one of my most accurate rifles to date, but too dang heavy.
Also we had a rental reamer for 4hd but sucker had a very short leade/freebore of 0.060 and had to seat them bullets deep. Thus the new reamer with a 0.090 leade..
I'll have smith look at the crown, but visually I dont see anything wrong.

approx how heavy is your 'too heavy' rifle? I will be building one soon. great line about the 90 gr bullet being so accurate.

 

[L.Sherm]

Never been a 25 cal fan or PRC but Alex's 25PRCW
with the 133 has the wheels spinning, about 3150 with the 133 sounds bada$$

 

[B23]

Never been a 25 cal fan or PRC but Alex's 25PRCW
with the 133 has the wheels spinning, about 3150 with the 133 sounds bada$$

Same here. Even though I shot one of the furthest deer I've ever shot with a 257 Wby I borrowed from a friend of my dad's back in the mid 80's I've never really cared much about 25 cals.

Fast forward forty years and the introduction of these mid 130gr 25 caliber bullets and I'm probably about as excited as I've ever been to get my 25 SAUM built. And, from some of the results I've seen from folks using these mid 130gr bullets on critters from speed goats to elk they appear to be getting the job done pretty darn well. I'm still not quite sure it'll be the best elk cartridge I have but then I think about all the elk my dad shot with his 270 Wby and 130gr bullets so maybe they are.

 

[Bodhisafa]

Are you guys doing short or long action 25 saums?

 

[B23]

Are you guys doing short or long action 25 saums?

Don't know about others but I'm having my 25 SAUM built on a BAT Igniter short action using a Wyatt's 3.100 Baney box and BDL hinged floor plate. At least that's my plan as of right now which could possibly change and if it does I'll us a detachable mag setup from UM.

These new 25 cal bullets are longgggg and with the short mag cases like a PRC, SAUM, or WSM it's probably better to use a mid length action. If a person has a mag bolt face Tikka, if you wanted to use a factory action, that would probably be one of the best choices.

 

[SweaterDood]

Don't know about others but I'm having my 25 SAUM built on a BAT Igniter short action using a Wyatt's 3.100 Baney box and BDL hinged floor plate. At least that's my plan as of right now which could possibly change and if it does I'll us a detachable mag setup from UM.

These new 25 cal bullets are longgggg and with the short mag cases like a PRC, SAUM, or WSM it's probably better to use a mid length action. If a person has a mag bolt face Tikka, if you wanted to use a factory action, that would probably be one of the best choices.

For the Intermediate length cartridges, I would definitely go with an intermediate / long action. Tikka, Defiance, Borden, and Lone Peak all accommodate out to about 3.2”. The Mid-length / “XM+” is becoming standardized with components and can also be mag fed by either a DBM or Oberndorf setup. I have the Original XM pattern Defiance action fed by MDT magazines (I don’t think the magazines have changed, only bolt spacing on the actions & bottom metal).

On a separate note, I finally cashed in my barrel cert with Brux. Having a 24” fluted Sendero shipped out to Clayton at WTO for him to set me up with a Switchlug and a 25 SAW. Should be able to set cruise control at about 2950 with the 134 & 135gr options. Hope to have it all ready in the next couple months!

 

[bobcat93]

I hate to say this but what can a .25cal do, the 6.5 can do better?..they are very close to one another and i believe the 6mm,6.5mm, are more inherently accurate then .25 cal bullets
I shot a 25-06 for about 4-5yrs 2015-2020 and problem was bullet selection..it was lame...
So why build a .25..
I could be completely wrong and maybe things have changed...and gotten better. Hahahaha...something got better since the pandemic..bahahahaha..
Personally for me..i have to look past the lore of the .25 and build on the 7mm next.. from the information ive collected im sold..but thats just me..