Help from someone who has used a boresighter

[Fred Bohl]

Magnetic boresighters whether optical or newer laser types all suffer from the same issue. To function properly, the muzzle face must be perpendicular to the bore axis in both planes. This is seldom true in factory barrels and even in custom barrels may not be perfectly true.

Having said that, I have ever since the original Leupold optical magnetic came out suggested that hunters get one. After sighting in their rifles, My suggestion was to put it on the barrel, align it vertically with the cross hairs and record the sight picture. If anything happens to the rifle, like dropping it, you can at least put it on and compare the sight picture to the recorded one to check for serious deviations from your original "zero".

 

[msinc]

It's negative when what you are hearing is not what you want to be hearing...I have another name for it, how about the truth??? You can best believe one thing, if it was possible to routinely take a bore sighter and get a rifle within 1" of the intended point of impact at 100 yards EVERY shooter on this earth would own one and you wouldn't have to cry about others being negative because there would be no "negativity"...it's just that simple.
I am not saying this cannot be done or even that it hasn't happened. I am saying that it is not happening on any sort of regular basis. The idea that you can stick a device in the end of a barrel and adjust a scope such that it will put a bullet 1" from where you intend for it to go at 100 yards, repeatedly......when you cant even remove and reinstall a scope and get it to do that is pure, unadulterated, spoonfed B.S.
I have tried several, they even came up with a fancier, better sounding word for them...a collimator {whoa!!!...now we got something!!!}. I have also tried to record what the bore sighter showed after really sighting in the rifle, only to find it to be equally useless at this. What I have learned about bore sighters is simple, it sure seems like it should work, it sure seems like a great idea and it would be fantastic if it did work and do all the things claimed....so anyone that don't own one has got to try it and find out for themselves. At the end of the day, especially if you spent money to get one of the better ones you will brag about it, then, once you have wasted enough time you will be quiet and your bore sighter will end up in the closet and be one of those "adventures" you no longer wish to talk about or be reminded of.
I write this to the point not because I want to brag that I am above making this mistake or that I am better at doing this than others. I am not either one. I write this because I have made this mistake and I hate to see others waste money and do the same thing. I also understand that once someone has their mind made up to try this "great idea" telling them otherwise is like walking into a sty and telling the one pig that the other one stinks....maybe he really does, but in the company you are in.....

 

[cocopuff]

so many experts,so much guessing..take it to a smith....

 

[wholman]

Burris signature rings will fix your problem.

 

[Fred Bohl]

I am not saying this cannot be done or even that it hasn't happened. I am saying that it is not happening on any sort of regular basis. The idea that you can stick a device in the end of a barrel and adjust a scope such that it will put a bullet 1" from where you intend for it to go at 100 yards, repeatedly......when you cant even remove and reinstall a scope and get it to do that is pure, unadulterated, spoonfed B.S.

NATO (including USA & USMC) standard in use for last 10 years see attached SAC.pdf file and note:

"Sights can be zeroed in the field to an accuracy and repeatability of 0.25mil (25mm in 100m / 1 inch in 100 yards) in less than a minute, without needing specialist personnel or resources"

 

[msinc]

NATO (including USA & USMC) standard in use for last 10 years see attached SAC.pdf file and note:

"Sights can be zeroed in the field to an accuracy and repeatability of 0.25mil (25mm in 100m / 1 inch in 100 yards) in less than a minute, without needing specialist personnel or resources"

Yeah, as if the government just cannot B.S. anyone!!!!! Zero a rifle to within 1 inch at 100 yards in less than a minute with a cheesy little bore sighter and never fire a shot???? Come on buddy, no one is that stupid....less than zero chance.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Yeah, as if the government just cannot B.S. anyone!!!!! Zero a rifle to within 1 inch at 100 yards in less than a minute with a cheesy little bore sighter and never fire a shot???? Come on buddy, no one is that stupid....less than zero chance.

misinc, it always makes me wander how many of those packaged rifle deals are took straight to the woods to hunt deer! Like the Savage packages that claim to be bore sighted from the factory. Anybody starting out the old -fashioned way of looking through the bore, don’t do it at 25 yards because you might still be off paper at 100. Go ahead and bore sight at your intended range.

 

[waltk]

The Sweany "Site - A - Line". By the Allen Supply Company. Remember, the one that used to be advertised in the gun magazines. I use the model with the diagonal cross hairs.

 

[Fred Bohl]

Yeah, as if the government just cannot B.S. anyone!!!!! Zero a rifle to within 1 inch at 100 yards in less than a minute with a cheesy little bore sighter and never fire a shot???? Come on buddy, no one is that stupid....less than zero chance.

I never seem to remember that it is pointless to argue with the convinced.

 

[Nobody]

The only time I've run into an issue with a bore sighter was when I tried to use one on a rifle with a brake and did not remove it first. When I rotated the bore sight (even when tight) the poi changed radically. That is the easiest way to check. With the rifle secured in a vice rotate the bore sighter and the laser should remain in a fixed position. If it moves something ain't right. If it stays fixed it will get you in the neighborhood. I don't think anyone who advocates for them thinks they're anything but a tool to save a few shots and get you on paper faster. No one is suggesting it is some alternate method of zeroing a rifle. You still have to zero it.

It's sort of the same thing with scope mounting methods. The smith I use has a rod/grid device he puts in the muzzle and levels, and then levels the reticle on that grid. I just level the rifle in a vice, shine a bright light through the objective lens in a dark room, and project the shadow of the reticle on a wall and line the shadow up with a plumb bob. Both methods work perfectly.

Looking down the barrel works. Putting a laser in the barrel is the same concept. Both work, and neither actually zero the rifle.

Taking strong positions on this doesn't compute for me. Find out what works for you, because done right there are a lot of different ways to skin the firearm.

 

[Richard Coody]

Burris signature rings will fix your problem.

+1

sounds like your scope mount is not aligned with the bore. have you checked your windage adjustment and made sure it was in the middle of its adjustment range?

i use a lot of different rings but i always lap them. the Burris rings are adjustable and don't need to be lapped. they get great reviews.

i use this boresighter. works great. you can certainly get it on the paper before you leave home.

http://sitelite-lasers.com/product_SL150.html

now granted i have use the tried and true look through the bore and align the crosshairs sucessfully many times but i find using the boresighter while mounting the scope at home saves time at the range.

 

[hogpatrol]

Burris rings and call it history!

 

[Ledd Slinger]

so many experts,so much guessing..take it to a smith....

There's no guessing. Bore sighters are a waste of time and his rings and bases are out of alignment. Plain and simple. Pretty easy to understand the cause of the issue the OP described even if you only have very limited experience with scoped rifles...

And for your info Mr. 'cocopuff', many of the members on this site are very experienced gunsmiths. Some are even widely renowned for producing world record breaking rifles in all forms of competition shooting.

 

[cocopuff]

There's no guessing. Bore sighters are a waste of time and his rings and bases are out of alignment. Plain and simple. Pretty easy to understand the cause of the issue the OP described even if you only have very limited experience with scoped rifles...

And for your info Mr. 'cocopuff', many of the members on this site are very experienced gunsmiths. Some are even widely renowned for producing world record breaking rifles in all forms of competition shooting.

Glad to hear that.I m looking for a good smith to make me a reamer to cut my throat longer in my 223 wylde..And reccomendations?

 

[danny]

I swapped my rings back and front with essentially no point of aim change showing on my boresighter. I also tried another ring set with no real change in point of aim. I will have to look at trying a new set of V scope bases to see if that changes anything.

Burris Signature Rings are never an option on my rifles. I don't want to see those plastic rings sticking out of the ring, and also, I do not use "adapters", so any ring I use must go right to the Ruger bases, and most preferably, they are Ruger Rings.

I really like the Bushnell Pro Boresighter, but I would suggest stoning the slits on each arbor assembly. Mine had a slight wire edge that I would not put in my bore. With that stoned out smooth with a very hard and fine stone, I do not see issues with now and then putting the boresighter in the bore.

Danny

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Glad to hear that.I m looking for a good smith to make me a reamer to cut my throat longer in my 223 wylde..And reccomendations?

Sent you a PM because the request is off topic.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I swapped my rings back and front with essentially no point of aim change showing on my boresighter. I also tried another ring set with no real change in point of aim. I will have to look at trying a new set of V scope bases to see if that changes anything.

Burris Signature Rings are never an option on my rifles. I don't want to see those plastic rings sticking out of the ring, and also, I do not use "adapters", so any ring I use must go right to the Ruger bases, and most preferably, they are Ruger Rings.

I really like the Bushnell Pro Boresighter, but I would suggest stoning the slits on each arbor assembly. Mine had a slight wire edge that I would not put in my bore. With that stoned out smooth with a very hard and fine stone, I do not see issues with now and then putting the boresighter in the bore.

Danny

Then I say again, you need to purchase a good scope ring lapping kit. Gonna take a fair amount of elbow grease to get those steel Ruger rings right

 

[hoz53]

I swapped my rings back and front with essentially no point of aim change showing on my boresighter. I also tried another ring set with no real change in point of aim. I will have to look at trying a new set of V scope bases to see if that changes anything.

Burris Signature Rings are never an option on my rifles. I don't want to see those plastic rings sticking out of the ring, and also, I do not use "adapters", so any ring I use must go right to the Ruger bases, and most preferably, they are Ruger Rings.

I really like the Bushnell Pro Boresighter, but I would suggest stoning the slits on each arbor assembly. Mine had a slight wire edge that I would not put in my bore. With that stoned out smooth with a very hard and fine stone, I do not see issues with now and then putting the boresighter in the bore.

Danny

ive been thinking about my boresighter since this thread started. For me I never bought a boresighter because i want to shoot more not less. I would rather shoot 20 rounds or whatever at the range than have a bore sighter ruin the fun and i only get to shoot a couple. I got the boresighter to align the scope while bedding the scope to the rings. Since then though ive decided im not sticking a boresighter arbor in any of my bores cause of the chance of damage. For you its simple do like ledd says and lapp the rings and see how you come out. if that doesnt work shim one of the ring bases.
if that works you can alter the ring base to fix it. i havent read this whole thread so this assumes your scope is ok.

PS you could have bought my bushnell pro boresighter cheaper than wat you paid. Ill save it for when i get in the nursing home and i can boresight my cane on the nurses

 

[danny]

ive been thinking about my boresighter since this thread started. For me I never bought a boresighter because i want to shoot more not less. I would rather shoot 20 rounds or whatever at the range than have a bore sighter ruin the fun and i only get to shoot a couple. I got the boresighter to align the scope while bedding the scope to the rings. Since then though ive decided im not sticking a boresighter arbor in any of my bores cause of the chance of damage. For you its simple do like ledd says and lapp the rings and see how you come out. if that doesnt work shim one of the ring bases.
if that works you can alter the ring base to fix it. i havent read this whole thread so this assumes your scope is ok.

PS you could have bought my bushnell pro boresighter cheaper than wat you paid. Ill save it for when i get in the nursing home and i can boresight my cane on the nurses

My original installation was with lapped rings, as I always do. I swapped the rings front to back with no change in point of aim as shown by the boresighter. I put another set of rings on and the point of aim was nominally still the same. I put another scope on and that also changed nothing, so the problem either lies in the bases (I don't have a set of bases yet to swap on), the base holes, the barrel, the machined barrel shank, the threaded barrel hole in the receiver, the receiver face, or maybe some combination of those.

I would rather shoot more than less, too. When I went to the range with this rifle and barely got on paper, I did not get to shoot as much as I would have if I did not have problems. I also shoot at 1000 yards, so using a boresighter to check for what my zero should fall at on a new rifle is s big help. If I can eliminate some issues before getting to the range, I am for that. Using one for 1000 yd. shooting (as well as other ranges, but less so) is a big help in being safe, as we can't afford shots going out of club property.

If I had not bought the boresighter, I am sure that I would not have easily nor accurately discovered the continuing sighting issues and would have made multiple unsuccessful trips to the range.

I took Fred Bohl's advice and bought the boresighter, and I am now even more glad that I had after using it, as it has other uses. Fred Bohl has been helping me with use of this, and I do not doubt his claims, not that I ever did to start out. He knows how to really use these things to their maximum capability, and I am happy and lucky that he has been kind and patient enough to pass his experience and knowledge on to me.

As far as having maybe having been able to buy your unit for less, well, I never out a WTB in the classifieds, nor asked in topic if anyone wanted to sell theirs, and you did not state that you would want to sell yours, so a transaction never came about, and that is ok. I have one now, and that is what is important .

Danny

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The new purchase can't be that important because now you just have a bore sighter and a rifle that's still messed up. LOL

You can draw all the same conclusions with sighting issues by simply securing the rifle in a rest or cleaning vise, looking down the bore and centering it on a target then checking where the crosshairs are. I do it all the time. I never even drive to the range before checking a new scope mounting job this way. I'll know right away if there is an issue. No bore sighting tool required.