Help from someone who has used a boresighter

[danny]

I had a problem with my Ruger No. 1 after mounting a scope and trying to get it sighted in. I bore sighted it on the target at 100 yds. and cranked the windage and elevation knobs on the scope like I always do, then noticed that I had to click full right to get it to look like it would get on paper. I never had that happen before, but I still cast some doubt on my procedure in that I might still be doing something wrong. I should not have second guessed myself. The bore sighting and first shots roughly agreed that something was wrong and that I needed full right on the scope to get somewhat near 0.

I am looking at getting the Bushnell Professional Bore Sighting tool with expandable arbors to use to try and help diagnose where the problem is, but not having used one, I am not sure that it will work how I would like. Maybe someone can help me.

I have read the .pdf instructions for it, and in seeing how they want you to align the bore sighter to the scope crosshairs, then locking the bore sighter tonthe stud, I am thinking that the bore sighter would simply align and center up with the crosshairs and not show any wwindage sighting errors, really only giving some ok elevation information.

It almost seems like to do what I want, you might have to have a way of leveling the grid in the bore sighter (by way of various means), then getting the rifle level at the same time, agreeing with the grid, THEN seeing what the error is on the scope, letting the crosshairs fall where they will.

Comments, help?

Thanks,

Danny

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Boresighters are not needed. Just look down the bore, center it on target, and dial scope to match. Works for me every time. The 2 boresighters I own (one laser and one arbor style) haven't been used in years. Never as reliable as looking down the bore IMO.

As far as the scope windage problem, I'm sure it's your rings and bases. Not the bore sighter. No rings or bases in existence will perfectly align a scope on center. They must always be hand lapped. Best bet is to buy a scope ring lapping kit and follow the instructions. I personally use the Wheeler Engineering kit and it works great. Once rings are fully lapped, re-mount the scope and try again. I'm sure you'll find there is much less windage adjustment required to zero the rifle

 

[hoz53]

I had a problem with my Ruger No. 1 after mounting a scope and trying to get it sighted in. I bore sighted it on the target at 100 yds. and cranked the windage and elevation knobs on the scope like I always do, then noticed that I had to click full right to get it to look like it would get on paper. I never had that happen before, but I still cast some doubt on my procedure in that I might still be doing something wrong. I should not have second guessed myself. The bore sighting and first shots roughly agreed that something was wrong and that I needed full right on the scope to get somewhat near 0.

I am looking at getting the Bushnell Professional Bore Sighting tool with expandable arbors to use to try and help diagnose where the problem is, but not having used one, I am not sure that it will work how I would like. Maybe someone can help me.

I have read the .pdf instructions for it, and in seeing how they want you to align the bore sighter to the scope crosshairs, then locking the bore sighter tonthe stud, I am thinking that the bore sighter would simply align and center up with the crosshairs and not show any wwindage sighting errors, really only giving some ok elevation information.

It almost seems like to do what I want, you might have to have a way of leveling the grid in the bore sighter (by way of various means), then getting the rifle level at the same time, agreeing with the grid, THEN seeing what the error is on the scope, letting the crosshairs fall where they will.

Comments, help?

Thanks,

Danny

And if that has the integral ruger rings that can cause a problem. I optically centered a scope and set it in lapped ruger integral rings on my m77 and the poi was 9" right at 100yd. Not sure the cause but i could shim the attachment to the base.

 

[danny]

And if that has the integral ruger rings that can cause a problem. I optically centered a scope and set it in lapped ruger integral rings on my m77 and the poi was 9" right at 100yd. Not sure the cause but i could shim the attachment to the base.

Thank God this is on a V model with removeable bases. Not sure if I am going to buy a bore sighter yet, but at minimum, I will have to perform a process of elimination to find the cause. I am still thinking I might get the bore sighter. I think, if I could find a way to level the grid in the unit, then attach a level to it for reference, I could also use it to level the reticle in the scope. If I leveled the bore sighter grid, then the rifle, it should be that I could rotate the scope to match the bore sighter grid lines. Hopefully, I could also use it that way to diagnose sighting issues.

Danny

 

[jr600yd]

I bore sight at a target about 100 yds away. The only use I've found for a boresighter is this. Once the rifle is zero'd I record the boresighter information. If I take the scope off the rifle and then put it back on I can go to this info and be pretty close to a zero

 

[msinc]

I would suggest that you do not waste a dime on a bore sighter device....any boresighter. There are two reasons I say this, first off you do not want to put any unnecessary metal "thing" into the muzzle of your rifle bore. It could damage the rifling. Most bore sighting devices I have seen had a chrome plated guide to go in the bore and this cannot be good for the bore. Second, they just don't work very good. At least not good enough to risk gunching up the rifling to use it. The idea that you can stick something in the bore and read off of it to do anything with an worth while accuracy in relation to the scope is a joke. As posted above, looking thru the bore at a small target 100 yards away and lining the scope up to that will absolutely get you just as close as any bore sighter and do it with zero damage to the rifling. I messed around with bore sighters many moons ago when I didn't know any better and the best I was ever able to do was zero up a rifle, take it to the range and shoot it and still be a foot high and left. Not all tools are good tools and a bore sighter is not a good one.

 

[Nobody]

Mine has plastic bushings. No possibility to damage the bore. I think it was $20. Not a critical tool, but helpful if you use 20 or 30 moa bases on your scopes and need to take out a lot of the down travel. Usually you can just dial from factory zero and get close if you did a good job lapping or bedding your rings.

Rings that are off should NOT necessitate that much windage adjustment. I would suspect the scope first unless there is a noticeable wobble to it mounted on the rifle. Even if it looks straight by the eye it should not be hard over in any event.

 

[JohnKielly]

Slap a straightedge down the side if the mount base & see where it points. Do the same along the side of the mounts.

Though I don't have experience with a #1, I have seen enough other actions with poor scope mounting capability not to discount this possibility.

 

[Huntschool]

Just a thought relating to your #1. I had a similar problem. Rings and mounts were solid. Bore sighted and could not find the target. Finally found impact to be way off horizontally.

Decided to start from scratch by removing scope and rings. When I got to the rings something just did not look right and I found that both rings were not set into the mounts correctly for the "clip" side to embed into the cut out the way it should have. Took the time to get it right, re mounted scope and went back to the targets. Low and behold the first shot was on paper and on target within inches of center.

I felt like a dumb butt, but learned a lesson about seating those darn Ruger rings. No problem since then.

Just a thought.......

__________________
Single shot shooters only shoot once.....
_______________________________
Bruce A. Hering
Program Coordinator/Lead Instructor (retired)
Shotgun Team Coach
Southeastern Illinois College
SCTP Collegiate Coaches Chairman
NSCA Level III

 

[msinc]

I am not sure I get the idea that lapping a measly couple thousandths {at best} out of the bore of a set of rings has some magical ability to correct base misalignment in the proper direction and make it better. I was to understand that the purpose of lapping rings was to help eliminate some stress {albeit a tiny amount} caused by rings possibly not being in perfect alignment with each other and thus torquing the scope when tightened to the rings. I can see it doing that, but only a very tiny amount, even if you lapped on them for a long time. How does lapping rings cause any correction in the right direction so as to eliminate bases not mounted properly to align with the bore????

 

[hoz53]

I am not sure I get the idea that lapping a measly couple thousandths {at best} out of the bore of a set of rings has some magical ability to correct base misalignment in the proper direction and make it better. I was to understand that the purpose of lapping rings was to help eliminate some stress {albeit a tiny amount} caused by rings possibly not being in perfect alignment with each other and thus torquing the scope when tightened to the rings. I can see it doing that, but only a very tiny amount, even if you lapped on them for a long time. How does lapping rings cause any correction in the right direction so as to eliminate bases not mounted properly to align with the bore????

i think you are right on this. i only lap rings to correct misalignment so you dont stress the scope tube. some people do bed them to make scope alignment adjustments.

 

[hoz53]

Thank God this is on a V model with removeable bases. Not sure if I am going to buy a bore sighter yet, but at minimum, I will have to perform a process of elimination to find the cause. I am still thinking I might get the bore sighter. I think, if I could find a way to level the grid in the unit, then attach a level to it for reference, I could also use it to level the reticle in the scope. If I leveled the bore sighter grid, then the rifle, it should be that I could rotate the scope to match the bore sighter grid lines. Hopefully, I could also use it that way to diagnose sighting issues.

Danny

i have a bushnell boresighter to. i dont use anymore. i think you would be wasting your money on one. i use other methods to figure out problems like this. evidently this is the first scope youve mounted on this rifle? id just start checking everything until i found the problem. if a boresighter showed your vertical crosshair on your scope was not aligned would that tell you why--i think not -youd still have to figure out weather it was the scope-rings-bases-misaligned holes in action ect. you may have to use windage adjustable bases or i have seen people slot the base mounting holes so they could be adjusted for windage.

what bases and rings are you using?

 

[danny]

i have a bushnell boresighter to. i dont use anymore. i think you would be wasting your money on one. i use other methods to figure out problems like this. evidently this is the first scope youve mounted on this rifle? id just start checking everything until i found the problem. if a boresighter showed your vertical crosshair on your scope was not aligned would that tell you why--i think not -youd still have to figure out weather it was the scope-rings-bases-misaligned holes in action ect. you may have to use windage adjustable bases or i have seen people slot the base mounting holes so they could be adjusted for windage.

what bases and rings are you using?

The boresighter would not tell me why I was having a problem. I would still have to do that by process of elimination. My reason for wanting a boresighter is for eliminating the need to have a sufficient distance to bore sight the old way, through the bore, by eye. Sometimes I can do it with a very close focusing scope, but usually I am not mounting one of those, and it gets to be a big hassle to do now.

I am using the Ruger Factory V bases and the Ruger factory Medium rings. This is the first time I hsve ever mounted a scope on this rifle and have shot it.

Danny

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Thank God this is on a V model with removeable bases. Not sure if I am going to buy a bore sighter yet, but at minimum, I will have to perform a process of elimination to find the cause. I am still thinking I might get the bore sighter. I think, if I could find a way to level the grid in the unit, then attach a level to it for reference, I could also use it to level the reticle in the scope. If I leveled the bore sighter grid, then the rifle, it should be that I could rotate the scope to match the bore sighter grid lines. Hopefully, I could also use it that way to diagnose sighting issues.

Danny

Leveling the reticle has nothing to do with needing to use all of your windage adjustment on the scope. You need to try new bases and lap the rings.

The only true reference is the bore itself. That's why I don't use boresighters. Perfectly centering a target in the bore with my eye is the most reliable method

 

[hoz53]

The boresighter would not tell me why I was having a problem. I would still have to do that by process of elimination. My reason for wanting a boresighter is for eliminating the need to have a sufficient distance to bore sight the old way, through the bore, by eye. Sometimes I can do it with a very close focusing scope, but usually I am not mounting one of those, and it gets to be a big hassle to do now.

I am using the Ruger Factory V bases and the Ruger factory Medium rings. This is the first time I hsve ever mounted a scope on this rifle and have shot it.

Danny

well okay you dont need a level on the boresighter then, just align it until the crosshairs in borescope and scope are parallel. just wondered if your mounts might be causing a problem ans since its the frist time youve mounted a scope on this gun the problem might be with the rifle.

 

[hoz53]

Leveling the reticle has nothing to do with needing to use all of your windage adjustment on the scope. You need to try new bases and lap the rings.

The only true reference is the bore itself. That's why I don't use boresighters. Perfectly centering a target in the bore with my eye is the most reliable method

i agree ledd there is really no reference to the centerline of the bore. ive never done a before and after when laping rings so i dont know how much diff it can make.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

i agree ledd there is really no reference to the centerline of the bore. ive never done a before and after when laping rings so i dont know how much diff it can make.

Yeah I've had lapping fix windage issues so many times in the past that now I won't even consider mounting a scope before the rings are lapped. I rarely have to dial more than 1 or 2 MOA from optical center of windage to be centered on a 100 yard target during sighting. If I lap the rings AND bed the scope in the rings with JB Weld, usually even less windage adjustment is required.

Granted some rare extreme issues can be caused by misaligned action holes, but even that can usually be fixed to a tolerable level by swapping the rings from front to back and/or turning the rings and bases from forward to rear. Another last resort option for bad windage issues is utilizing a one piece base and only using 3 out of 4 screw holes to secure it to the action. Still plenty of strength for reliability. I usually only use one piece bases when they are available, the last resort was referring to leaving out the one misaligned screw. Though with a Ruger No. 1, a one piece base may not be an option.

But if the issue is so bad that it cannot be fixed with those methods, then a different scope needs to be tested. If it's still way off, then the rifle needs to be returned to the manufacturer for evaluation and hopefully resolution

 

[DirtySteve]

I suggest you swap the rings. Put the one currently on the front on the rear. Then if you have to go all the way left to zero the rifle trash those rings and get a new set. If you are still to the right the base is out of alignment.

 

[Fred Bohl]

The boresighter would not tell me why I was having a problem. I would still have to do that by process of elimination. My reason for wanting a boresighter is for eliminating the need to have a sufficient distance to bore sight the old way, through the bore, by eye. Sometimes I can do it with a very close focusing scope, but usually I am not mounting one of those, and it gets to be a big hassle to do now.

There has been quite a bit of negativity about boresighters in this thread but stick to your choice and get one. Once you become used to using it correctly you will find that your initial scope adjustment will be very close to minimize expending expensive rounds or wasted barrel life to sight-in.

An optical boresighter such as the Bushnell Professional Bore Sighting tool with expandable arbors you selected is a precision tool and when used carefully will give accurate results with no danger to your barrel. I've done over 1500 boresightings using both expandable arbors (which I prefer) and spuds and have not damaged a barrel. For very good shooters (target or hunter), my boresighting will put their first shot within 1 inch of point of aim. With experience you will be able to use it to detect problems such as "click" value errors and doing a box test will show tracking problems. You can also check range of adjustment and how far off center of that range that your correct boresight is which in turn would reflect any mount offset.

Rather than droning on, I have attached a PDF for those that may be interested.

 

[hoz53]

There has been quite a bit of negativity about boresighters in this thread but stick to your choice and get one. Once you become used to using it correctly you will find that your initial scope adjustment will be very close to minimize expending expensive rounds or wasted barrel life to sight-in.

An optical boresighter such as the Bushnell Professional Bore Sighting tool with expandable arbors you selected is a precision tool and when used carefully will give accurate results with no danger to your barrel. I've done over 1500 boresightings using both expandable arbors (which I prefer) and spuds and have not damaged a barrel. For very good shooters (target or hunter), my boresighting will put their first shot within 1 inch of point of aim. With experience you will be able to use it to detect problems such as "click" value errors and doing a box test will show tracking problems. You can also check range of adjustment and how far off center of that range that your correct boresight is which in turn would reflect any mount offset.

Rather than droning on, I have attached a PDF for those that may be interested.

thanks for that info--I try to be an open minded guy and since i have the bushnell professional bore sighting tool anyway i may as well give your info a try. mabie i can get some use out of the thing. how about those leupold bore sighters with the magnet? still its hard to get myself to put this thing in a custom barrel