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Headspace question #102

muleman69

USMC -1st marine Div. RVN
While setting my die for .002 headspace I managed to get some .004 to .008 under. Should I shoot these or toss them?
 
I managed to get some .004 to .008 under.

Just a suggestion to avoid that in the future. When I am setting up a die for the first time, I take out the expander and start with the die high. As I bring the die down, I can see the datum to case head increase (as the brass is getting squeezed in but the shoulder isn't being set back any yet). I keep coming down until I get what I want.

Then I put the expander back in (if I am using one). This way I don't keep working the neck each successive sizing.

I might even using different brass as I am adjusting to avoid working the same cartridge over and over until I am where I want.

And just to give you an idea of increments for adjustment (courtesy of Unclenick from TFL forum).

Die Adjustment.jpg
 
What has worked well for me is the Redding Competition shellholder set of 5 , the shellholders base increase by .002
Using a FL die you bottom die to shellholder everytime , runout is average .001 Im shooting 3 different types of brass for a test and using the shellholders I can record in my log book what shellholder to use to give a .001 or .002 headspace dimension . Never liked the air between the die and the shellholder to size .
 
While setting my die for .002 headspace I managed to get some .004 to .008 under.

The case does not have head space and if anything you sized your cases for difference clearances, some of your cases allows for .002" clearance whole others have as much as .008" clearance. Meaning you have cases that are sized for short chamber and long chambers. I would not suggest you use Skip's shims, I do not suggest you grind the top of the shell holder and I do not suggest you grind the bottom of the die; same thing goes for Redding Competitions shell holders. I suggest you learn to use the press, die and shell holder.

One more time, the case has the ability to resist sizing, some cases have more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome. When I want to know if the case was sized I use a feeler gage between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder when the ram is at the top of the ram travel (this method does not apply to cam over presses).

F. Guffey
 
back off .010 bye way of a feeler gauge between the die and ram got me to a starting point

I have one rifle that has .016" clearance when using minimum length/full length sized ammo, how did you get a .010" feeler gage between the die and ram? When adjusting the die off of the shell holder I place the gage between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die. On the rifle with .016" clearance I use a .014 feeler gage.

F. Guffey
 
.004" can be loaded and shot, it's not going to blow up or wreck your rifle. That said, there is another thing you can do to negate the effects of firing brass that is shy of some headspace. Load the rounds and seat the bullet touching the lands. This will keep it back against the bolt face, make everything safe and not stretch the case in the wrong way or hammer the bolt. You can do this safely with cases that are way under. It is my understanding that cases fired short are driven forward by the striker, they ignite and the brass expands leaving the case head area to stretch back towards the bolt. This is not the ideal place to have it stretch. You want the bolt back against the bolt face and the shoulder area doing the stretching, back up to where it belongs. I have done this hundreds of times and so far only lost one eye. {not really, it's safe}
I find that cases will definitely differ in hardness or spring back and this can cause different headspace lengths in cases with the same die and press set up. This fact is what has kept me from buying a Redding T-7. If I could set up a size die once and leave it there and know I was going to get dead on case size length I was after I would do it, but it just don't work that way.
There are a few things you can do to help out...first off, try annealing the cases so they are all the same. Next, I like to size up as big of a batch of cases I can all in one session. I realize this is not always easy or practical. I find that if I take like 500 223 cases from the same year and batch, lube them all up good and set up my die I can run them all and get probably close to 90% dead on what I am after.
If you cannot anneal and you have brass of unknown origin then you will have to set up your dies and check often.
 
While setting my die for .002 headspace I managed to get some .004 to .008 under. Should I shoot these or toss them?

If you look at the SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing it lists headspace as min and max with .010 in between the two.

There is approximately .003 between the GO and NO-GO gauges and a Field gauge is approximately .010 longer than the GO gauge.

Meaning after setting up a new rifle or rebarreling a rifle between GO and NO-GO gauges you are allowed .007 lug setback or wear before reaching maximum headspace.

Bottom line I have had brand new factory ammunition over .009 shorter than a GO gauge. And I asked the same question here and the answer was "shoot them".

The two photos below are dedicated to F. Guffey who thinks you can't fire a .308 in a 30-06 without a feeler gauge. :rolleyes:

But it was done at Camp Perry! ;)

AZC1Gfg.jpg


TeYqYFV.jpg
 
Last edited:
If you look at the SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing it lists headspace as min and max with .010 in between the two.

There is approximately .003 between the GO and NO-GO gauges and a Field gauge is approximately .010 longer than the GO gauge.

Meaning after setting up a new rifle or rebarreling a rifle between GO and NO-GO gauges you are allowed .007 lug setback or wear before reaching maximum headspace.

Bottom line I have had brand new factory ammunition over .009 shorter than a GO gauge. And I asked the same question here and the answer was "shoot them".

The two photos below are dedicated to F. Guffey who thinks you can't fire a .308 in a 30-06 without a feeler gauge. :rolleyes:

But it was done at Camp Perry! ;)

AZC1Gfg.jpg


TeYqYFV.jpg
Wow ,now that is called JUMP. Can't believe it.
 
Wow ,now that is called JUMP. Can't believe it.

The rifle is not unique, I checked the length of the chamber and found it to be .002" longer than a field reject length gage. For cases I used 280 Remington cases because the Remington 280 case is longer than the 30/06 case from the shoulder to the case head .051". For me it was a matter of using a 30/06 forming die to shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head .017". After I shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head I adjusted the full length sizer .014" off of the shell holder and then sized the case. In the process I obtained the 'magic .002" clearance after sizing.

I understand: there are many reloaders that are Wildly Indignant about ever thing but the Redding Competition Shell holder set has a limitation, the reduction in deck height is .010"; I needed .014" and then there are the adjustments of the die in the forming process. Limitation? The 5 shell holder set from Redding gives the reloader 5 options, the feeler gage set allows me to make 25 adjustments between minimum length to .025" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case. AND! I do not have to purchases a different set for each shell holder.

F. Guffey
 
The rifle is not unique, I checked the length of the chamber and found it to be .002" longer than a field reject length gage. For cases I used 280 Remington cases because the Remington 280 case is longer than the 30/06 case from the shoulder to the case head .051". For me it was a matter of using a 30/06 forming die to shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head .017". After I shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head I adjusted the full length sizer .014" off of the shell holder and then sized the case. In the process I obtained the 'magic .002" clearance after sizing.

I understand: there are many reloaders that are Wildly Indignant about ever thing but the Redding Competition Shell holder set has a limitation, the reduction in deck height is .010"; I needed .014" and then there are the adjustments of the die in the forming process. Limitation? The 5 shell holder set from Redding gives the reloader 5 options, the feeler gage set allows me to make 25 adjustments between minimum length to .025" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case. AND! I do not have to purchases a different set for each shell holder.

F. Guffey
So you run your ram up then place the feeler gauges on the shell holder then run die down on top of gauges then lock the die to get desired tolerances ?
 

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